+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 61

Thread: STR vs DEX for DPS *Devs Sticky*

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default STR vs DEX for DPS *Devs Sticky*

    Heard alot of whiners talking about rolling on leather over plate because DEX is better so I decided to break down the math and see how it turned out.

    Naked (With weapon) - 140 Attack power
    Path of the Wind - 368.68
    Rising Waterfall - 431.63
    Auto - 116.24

    Geared - 362 Attack Power
    Path of the Wind - 465.54
    Rising Waterfall - 521.13
    Auto - 137

    Difference -
    Path of the Wind - 96.86 DPS/26.3%
    Rising Waterfall - 89.5DPS/20.7%
    Auto - 20.76DPS/17.85%

    Those are purely hits, no crit damage was taken into consideration. This means that 222AP gave me approximately a 20-25% damage increase on every hit or about .405 damage per AP considering an average 90 extra damage per ability. Now lets break down DEX to STR conversions.

    DEX gives .038% chance to crit and .25 AP.
    27 DEX = 1% crit/6.75AP

    STR gives .75 AP
    27 STR = 20.25AP

    Let's say I do 450 per attack and attack 100 times.

    27 DEX = 1 hit will crit, and every hit gains 2.73 damage. 452.73x100+452.73=45,725.73

    27 STR = 0 hits will crit and every hit gains 8.2 damage. 458.2x100=45,820

    Comes out to a .215%DPS difference in favor of STR

    So what matters is which piece of gear has better amounts of stats for us.

    Ravager v Foe Slayer - (DPS will mean Damage per swing here, not damage per second)

    Chest -

    Leather
    14 STR 4.25 DPS
    21 DEX 1.72 DPS .77% crit I.E. 3.465 DPS
    12 AP 4.86 DPS
    Total - 14.295 DPS

    Plate
    21 STR 6.378DPS
    14 DEX 1.41DPS .518% Crit I.E. 2.311 DPS
    8 AP 3.6DPS
    13 Crit .48% crit I.E. 2.16DPS
    Total - 15.859 DPS

    Legs

    Leather
    14 STR - 4.25 DPS
    21 DEX - 1.72 DPS .77 crit I.E. 3.465 DPS
    7 AP - 2.835 DPS
    13 Crit - .48% crit I.E. 2.16DPS
    Total - 14.43 DPS

    Plate
    22 STR - 6.6825 DPS
    14 DEX 1.41DPS .518% Crit I.E. 2.311 DPS
    11 AP 4.455 DPS
    Total - 14.8585 DPS

    Didn't bother to check the rest. Chest and legs come out marginally ahead for PLATE.

    Essentially... if you deal an average of 450 damage per attack

    1 STR = (.75)(.405) = .30375 DPS
    1 DEX = (.25)(.405) + (.00038)(Total DPS) = .27225 DPS
    1 AP = .405 DPS
    1 CRIT = (.00038)(Total DPS) = .171 DPS

    1AP = 1.33STR = 1.48DEX = 2.36CRIT

    Now, obviously there are mechanics such as Strike to Maim and Grim Satisfaction which will proc off of crits and add to your damage, but these should easily be covered by the base stats/buffs of your spec/gear while in a dungeon/raid environment. There's no real benefit to crit past 20% IMO.

    Anyways, this is all BRO-MATH and I'm sure some stubby fingered nerd is beating off to the sound of his calculator searching for flaws, but all my fans know my word is absolute. The point is, stop being an uncouth savage and rolling on leather. There are like 400 rogues to 1 of every other class, leave their drops alone. Also, Ravager looks LAME! I do need to find that pimp looking leather helm.... looks as cool as Foe Slayer helm but they won't put Foe Slayer helm in the game cus they're lame.

    Eject Goose, Eject!

  2. #2
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default

    Stop asking devs to sticky everything you post
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  3. #3
    Champion ZuKii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    522

    Default

    Did a very brief test to show you:

    "Bash" doesn't take into account weapon damage so you don't get widely varying results. It's always within 1 damage and since AP says "all ability" you assume it works the same for the rest of them (but I'm sure someone could use a parser and tell you I just dont have time atm).

    481 Attack Power - Bash was doing 363 damage
    240 Attack Power - Bash was doing 298 damage.

    Same buffs etc.
    Definitely not as high an increase as you saw.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Stop asking devs to sticky everything you post
    Stop asking me favors, I'm not a game developer.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZuKii View Post
    Did a very brief test to show you:

    "Bash" doesn't take into account weapon damage so you don't get widely varying results. It's always within 1 damage and since AP says "all ability" you assume it works the same for the rest of them (but I'm sure someone could use a parser and tell you I just dont have time atm).

    481 Attack Power - Bash was doing 363 damage
    240 Attack Power - Bash was doing 298 damage.

    Same buffs etc.
    Definitely not as high an increase as you saw.
    If you're using bash to DPS in a dungeon you're an idiot?

  6. #6
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peaches View Post
    If you're using bash to DPS in a dungeon you're an idiot?
    Hes using bash for testing purposes

    If you dont even realize that, you shouldnt be posting mathcraft
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    17

    Default

    ? all he's suggesting is that some of the extra damage you observed might simply be due to the disparities between weapon damage, and the actual increase in damage from STR (attack power) is not that high. with a higher sample size it might be easier to see this though

    edit: damn, ninja'd
    Last edited by noodleboi123; 03-20-2011 at 10:36 PM.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodleboi123 View Post
    ? all he's suggesting is that some of the extra damage you observed might simply be due to the disparities between weapon damage, and the actual increase in damage from STR (attack power) is not that high. with a higher sample size it might be easier to see this though

    edit: damn, ninja'd
    nah, your explanation is better, so its not a ninja
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  9. #9
    Champion ZuKii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peaches View Post
    If you're using bash to DPS in a dungeon you're an idiot?
    Good job at reading comprehension.

    Just to prove it to you.

    1 min of spamming "Power Strike" with 481 AP (non crits only):

    Lowest: 451
    Highest: 581
    Average: 516

    1 min of spamming "Power Strike" with 240 AP (non crits only):

    Lowest: 388
    Highest: 533
    Average: 460

    Off to work but if you want to post pics of DPS meter where you hit something for 3-4 minutes each time with one skill that shows something drastically different (i.e. that attack power is worth it) then be my guest.
    Last edited by ZuKii; 03-20-2011 at 10:40 PM.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Hes using bash for testing purposes

    If you dont even realize that, you shouldnt be posting mathcraft
    I don't care about bash because I don't use it to DPS in an instance. I care how stats affect what I DO use in an instance. Obviously more testing can be done using various abilities to show disparities in data, but why the hell would he use Bash? I couldn't care less if my AP isn't affecting Bash.

    Also this data was taken from two sets of 50k damage strictly Path/Rising spam. I doubt that my calculations are too far off because of the damage range on my weapon.

    Edit: I already did whack something for an extensive period time and parsed the data above for you showing that Dexterity point per point provided less overall sustained damage contribution than STR.
    Last edited by Peaches; 03-20-2011 at 10:44 PM.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    24

    Default

    The problem here is that the nature of the warrior DPS trees is such that key DPS talents fire when the character lands a critical hit. From Paragon's ability that increases critical hit damage by 60% to Champion's ability to gain 6 power per crit (which is low in the tree and taken by many builds) to Beastmaster's bleed which fire on crits to Riftblade's Planar blade returning 10 Energy on a crit, alot of the key talents in the top DPS trees key off critical hits.

    And yes, I know that Bleeds scale off strength. My point is that it isn't simply a matter of which boosts straight damage more.
    Last edited by Myriken; 03-20-2011 at 10:44 PM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,868

    Default

    Putting *Devs Sticky* isn't going to get your thread miraculously stickied.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Dang, way to shoot down my dreams Alien.

    @ Myriken - Crit needs were addressed in the OP. I don't see a need to get over 20% crit (which is easily obtained through party buffs) to constantly apply Grim Satisfaction/Strike to maim. Rift/Paragon builds suck terribly for DPS and thus are ignored.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peaches View Post
    Dang, way to shoot down my dreams Alien.

    @ Myriken - Crit needs were addressed in the OP. I don't see a need to get over 20% crit (which is easily obtained through party buffs) to constantly apply Grim Satisfaction/Strike to maim. Rift/Paragon builds suck terribly for DPS and thus are ignored.
    To the original post, point taken.

    As an aside, good paragon builds are certainly competitive with top Rogue/Mage DPS. Sorry, but I kind of doubt that the Champion/Beast/Paragon will be left untouched doing 200+ more DPS than other top DPS builds without a nerf. If it isn't changed, hey I'm right there with you stacking Strength.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myriken View Post
    To the original post, point taken.

    As an aside, good paragon builds are certainly competitive with top Rogue/Mage DPS. Sorry, but I kind of doubt that the Champion/Beast/Paragon will be left untouched doing 200+ more DPS than other top DPS builds without a nerf. If it isn't changed, hey I'm right there with you stacking Strength.
    Perhaps. Until they nerf it though that's what I'll be trying to maximize. (Personally I'd like to see Dual Wield be the best so we can all be ninjas)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts