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Thread: Reaver: can we agree, this soul is closer to DPS then Tank

  1. #16
    Telaran Beroya's Avatar
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    Eh, I tried Reaver for a while. It makes for a decent general tank. If a boss is going to have multiple adds which all need to be tanked by you, the boss uses even amounts of magic and physical damage (or the adds make up the physical whilst the boss is magic), and you don't have nice gear, then Reaver is probably the best for that scenario.

    A well-geared paladin is better for purely physical bosses (as the block absorption can easily surpass the 50% that a 44 reaver would be capable of reaching), while a Void Knight is superior for primarily magic bosses (70% absorption versus nothing for paladins and 50 for Reavers). Block is capable of completely negating the damage of trash, unlike Reaver's absorption abilities, and blocks also heal a Paladin.

    So in other words, Reaver is good for an extremely uncommon circumstance or when one is poorly geared (i.e. T1 instances). After that, please go something more useful.

  2. #17
    Prophet of Telara Mantiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beroya View Post
    Eh, I tried Reaver for a while. It makes for a decent general tank. If a boss is going to have multiple adds which all need to be tanked by you, the boss uses even amounts of magic and physical damage (or the adds make up the physical whilst the boss is magic), and you don't have nice gear, then Reaver is probably the best for that scenario.

    A well-geared paladin is better for purely physical bosses (as the block absorption can easily surpass the 50% that a 44 reaver would be capable of reaching), while a Void Knight is superior for primarily magic bosses (70% absorption versus nothing for paladins and 50 for Reavers). Block is capable of completely negating the damage of trash, unlike Reaver's absorption abilities, and blocks also heal a Paladin.

    So in other words, Reaver is good for an extremely uncommon circumstance or when one is poorly geared (i.e. T1 instances). After that, please go something more useful.
    So I shouldn't be farming T2 and Rift raids with my Reaver? Damn... never got the memo. Paladins simply do not impress me with the current builds and utility/mitigation. Since you can get a very high block chance from simply taking 8 points in Paladin anyways. My Reaver sports 35% block chance, so ummm, yeah. As for healing from every block, I like that, however the Reaver's ability to self heal in different ways can offset that on certain bosses. Not every single one, but certain bosses. What Paladins need is a better way to "oh shayt" certain parts and I'd play with the buiilds again.

    Otherwise Reaver and VK heavy builds continue to mitigate damage better overall in most encounters for T1/2 and beyond. Also a Warlord fan, but can't figure out a heavy spec that does the same if not better then even a Paladin build.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantiss View Post
    So I shouldn't be farming T2 and Rift raids with my Reaver? Damn... never got the memo. Paladins simply do not impress me with the current builds and utility/mitigation. Since you can get a very high block chance from simply taking 8 points in Paladin anyways. My Reaver sports 35% block chance, so ummm, yeah. As for healing from every block, I like that, however the Reaver's ability to self heal in different ways can offset that on certain bosses. Not every single one, but certain bosses. What Paladins need is a better way to "oh shayt" certain parts and I'd play with the buiilds again.

    Otherwise Reaver and VK heavy builds continue to mitigate damage better overall in most encounters for T1/2 and beyond. Also a Warlord fan, but can't figure out a heavy spec that does the same if not better then even a Paladin build.
    Rift raids can be zerged, and T2 isn't raids. You say you've been there to know so there's no doubt you know I'm right. If AoE tanking is what you refer to, then Reaver would be my choice as well. For Single target tanking I've yet to see anything that could match the VK's mitigation. While there's evidence supporting this statement, there isn't enough counter evidence to support the opposite conclusion. The Reaver could support others, as stated before in several threads, but was never proved to make the best single target tank soul. It has a lot more to do with the way it compares against other alternatives.

  4. #19
    Prophet of Telara Mantiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fami View Post
    Rift raids can be zerged, and T2 isn't raids. You say you've been there to know so there's no doubt you know I'm right. If AoE tanking is what you refer to, then Reaver would be my choice as well. For Single target tanking I've yet to see anything that could match the VK's mitigation. While there's evidence supporting this statement, there isn't enough counter evidence to support the opposite conclusion. The Reaver could support others, as stated before in several threads, but was never proved to make the best single target tank soul. It has a lot more to do with the way it compares against other alternatives.
    You "can" zerg Rift raids, but we don't. We do get the odd Guardian or Defiant who come play whack a MoB after we tag them for fun and enjoyment, but nothing I would consider zergish.

    I was told that we "needed" a VK MT for the Death Rift phase 1 or 2. Ended up just Riftstalker and Reaver tanking that phase with ease. VKs have a place, but until content gets considerbly harder there just isn't a requirement for one that I've fuond.
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantiss View Post
    You "can" zerg Rift raids, but we don't. We do get the odd Guardian or Defiant who come play whack a MoB after we tag them for fun and enjoyment, but nothing I would consider zergish.

    I was told that we "needed" a VK MT for the Death Rift phase 1 or 2. Ended up just Riftstalker and Reaver tanking that phase with ease. VKs have a place, but until content gets considerbly harder there just isn't a requirement for one that I've fuond.
    I never intended to imply the VK is mandatory for rift raids, nor did I imply you zerg them. My point was that the overall factors, spec among them, mean less *if* someone wants to zerg them.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantiss View Post
    You're what? Level 12?

    Tanking Greenscale and T2 the Reaver holds aggro insanely well. That goes for the Expert and Raid Rifts as well. Might want to get into the end game or learn to tank before commenting. The only thing that a Reaver build needs is 8 points in Paladin for some of the juicy abilities there that almost any tank should have.
    I could attack you left and right be i wont have too, thanks for not reading my post before showing how big a tool you can actually be.

    I am not level 12, and while i havent tanked greenscale yet, ive yet to find a situation i cant tank with paladin and void knight.

    The damage output reaver can put out is way to high for a tank soul, and that is my point in this thread. And if you are trying to say it is not you are lying. With reaver being able to easily take on 8+ mobs at a time, healing back 9% of the hp per kill, aoe leveling and farming is beyond easy with this so called tanking soul.

    Yeah they have a lot of tanking talents, it doesnt change that fact that their damage and survivability is very high.

    I didnt design the soul, neither did you, so why are you coming at me as though you are personally offended that im calling this soul out, how about you stop nerd raging for a moment and ask yourself why so many offenive pvp and pve builds include the reaver soul.
    Last edited by MrFoxx; 03-16-2011 at 02:55 PM.
    * Petition: Team Death match mode for all warfront maps.


    The biggest mistake I see mages and other range classes do is try to tank me, as a warrior. Are you insane? What makes you believe you can fight and survive me at melee range as a guy wearing a bedsheet with a belt trying to pass it off as armor and the hp pool of a wetnapkin.

    Am i supposed to be teaching you how to play your class in between beating you in the warfronts?

  7. #22
    Prophet of Telara Mantiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    I could attack you left and right be i wont have too, thanks for not reading my post before showing how big a tool you can actually be.

    I am not level 12, and while i havent tanked greenscale yet, ive yet to find a situation i cant tank with paladin and void knight.

    The damage output reaver can put out is way to high for a tank soul, and that is my point in this thread. And if you are trying to say it is not you are lying. With reaver being able to easily take on 8+ mobs at a time, healing back 9% of the hp per kill, aoe leveling and farming is beyond easy with this so called tanking soul.

    Yeah they have a lot of tanking talents, it doesnt change that fact that their damage and survivability is very high.

    I didnt design the soul, neither did you, so why are you coming at me as though you are personally offended that im calling this soul out, how about you stop nerd raging for a moment and ask yourself why so many offenive pvp and pve builds include the reaver soul.

    Reaver's don't do high damage. Perhaps you should re-evalute your build and come back with a more viable spec. The only tanks that are currently very low on dps are Riftstalkers and that should be changed.

    Whining about a Reaver's dps is like whining that a pure Bard is pumping out insane numbers. Bad tanks are just bad, guess where you fall?

    9% health back per kill!? Who the hell cares. You must be low level if you think that is a contributing factor and anyone raiding won't have that talent.

    8+ MoBs at a time can be dnoe by a lot of tanks, not just a Reaver. Unless you're going to say that a Riftstalker does insane damage as well. Our primary Riftstalker can tank 8+ Mobs.

    Bunch of goofy noob tanks who are jealous of anyone who can play better. They don't regard the soul or it's intented purpose, they only look at it as an imbalance. These same goofballs will whine when people are VK tanking a pure magic boss saying its unfair. You get 4 roles for a reason, learn to use them.
    Last edited by Mantiss; 03-16-2011 at 03:58 PM.
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


  8. #23
    Ascendant simpa1988's Avatar
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    i have reaver/ritblade/beastmaster
    i am level 30 and i have split the talent points between reaver and riftblade it works fine to me especially with the healing damage at leveling up and soloing , but i want a dps warrior at dungeons not a tank , so with this build im tank warrior or i can play as a dps also? im asking this because many skills of reaver i have pull aggro.

  9. #24
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpa1988 View Post
    i have reaver/ritblade/beastmaster
    i am level 30 and i have split the talent points between reaver and riftblade it works fine to me especially with the healing damage at leveling up and soloing , but i want a dps warrior at dungeons not a tank , so with this build im tank warrior or i can play as a dps also? im asking this because many skills of reaver i have pull aggro.

    Reaver / rift / Bm is a solo /AoE grinding spec.

    You will do a lot of aoe damage and generate a lot of threat with it, even if you didn't take the dot threat talent but it is not a tank set up. You would make a good enough tank for rifts / invasions but not dungeons.

    For a lvling tank build you want something like this.
    The base :
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0c_Ah..xuoz.x0R
    The basic essentials. This base gives you massive AoE threat with the reaver dot spreading and a ton of block from paladin.
    Build up either reaver or pally based on your preference for a lvling tank spec, either one will do fine. Just make to to focus on the damage reduction talents and not the dps ones, as you get more then enough threat from your dots on single target or AoE thanks to Sinister Intent + Aggressive guardian.

    A lvl 30 pally focused build.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0c...uoz.E0Mu00VszR

    Reaver Focused.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0c_Ah..xuqkh0kcrz.g0R

    Your 3rd soul for either should be zero point voidknight or warlord. Just note that the debuff from blood fever and the warlord aura dont stack.

  10. #25
    Telaran
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    Speaking of Reaver, how do I get the Creeping Death ability?

  11. #26
    Shadowlander Thraze's Avatar
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    I leveled from 1-50 as Reaver/Riftblade and adored it.

    I think it absolutely should be stripped of all the +threat crap on the talents/spells so I can use it in end game without driving my tank nuts by pulling aggro too much.
    Last edited by Thraze; 03-16-2011 at 09:28 PM.

  12. #27
    Telaran
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    I would say if you go reaver / riftblade you got something more like a dps build going than a tank one. But if you go reaver pally you are more tank than anything.

  13. #28
    Champion of Telara
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    Reaver is a Tank soul.

    Reaver augmented with 20some points in Riftblade and a few in BM or maybe Paragon can do some nice AOE DPS but loses ALOT of its "tankyness"

    Reaver only becomes a DPS soul when its paired with DPS souls.

    Same can be said for any of the other Tank souls.

    To say Reaver by itself is a DPS soul is beyond ******ed.....be the same as saying heavy Champion soul is a tank.

  14. #29
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    I am not level 12, and while i havent tanked greenscale yet, ive yet to find a situation i cant tank with paladin and void knight.
    Straw man statement. This does not address the issue being discussed.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    The damage output reaver can put out is way to high for a tank soul
    Where's the rules in stone about damage output from tank specs? Ever look at the DPS meters for tanks near the end of WoW? Or EQ throughout. The idea that tanks have to deal no damage is flawed from the start. And before you say "This isnt WoW or EQ" Then what are you basing your comparison of tanks on to? What's the "standard"?

    Paladin is super defensive stats and CD's, reaver is a bit more offensive for threat and aoe threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    And if you are trying to say it is not you are lying.
    Someone having a different opinion (Even if they could be wrong) is not a lie. A lie is when you know a fact and state something otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    With reaver being able to easily take on 8+ mobs at a time,
    This is a very general statement. 8 critters? 8 normal melee mobs? 8 casters? 8 elites? 8 Greenscales?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    healing back 9% of the hp per kill
    This ability is decent for soloing, but is pretty much worthless otherwise. 9% heal that is unreliable.. if you pull a 3 pack of elite mobs in a dungeon.. the first two you kill gives you 18% total in healing... thats not a whole lot (when 1% avoidance would more than likely saved you more than that in total HP) and the last mob you cant even count because when that heal triggers the danger is already gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    aoe leveling and farming is beyond easy with this so called tanking soul.
    AOE farming is what tanks normally do in games...

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    Yeah they have a lot of tanking talents, it doesnt change that fact that their damage and survivability is very high.
    I would never call their damage very high. It's decent, but it's nothing amazing. It works out well in AE scenerios, but single target damage is maybe slightly higher than the other tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFoxx View Post
    I didnt design the soul, neither did you, so why are you coming at me as though you are personally offended that im calling this soul out, how about you stop nerd raging for a moment and ask yourself why so many offenive pvp and pve builds include the reaver soul.
    People aren't offended by you calling the soul out, they are offended by your ignorance and arrogance and obvious lack of knowledge of game mechanics.

  15. #30
    Soulwalker
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    As someone else said, Reaver on its own does terrible damage. The reason you think you do great damage with it is that you also have points in Riftblade. I recommend you respec out of Riftblade, put them ALL in Reaver, and see how you feel about your DPS then.

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