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Thread: The best pvp melee rogue build?

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default The best pvp melee rogue build?

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...zsboddo.V0xcho

    comments, praise, excitement, crticism etc

    think 3 pts in imp final blow could go elsewhere because i think annihilate in riftstalker is more powerful even with the 15% bonus, not sure though
    Last edited by tscanlon; 02-27-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    I would really like to see some posts on this build.

    I think it looks good but could you explain as to why you made the choices you did?

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    is the infiltrator tree aquired through pvp? cause i didnt see it when i did an earlier additional soul tree quest?

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    i had a hard time deciding between infiltrator and ranger, a lil ranged specced seems like a must in this game but 2 (cc and magical effects) purges in inf tree seem like a must too, ekk, i havent come anywhere close to end game so what do i know

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by equality View Post
    i had a hard time deciding between infiltrator and ranger, a lil ranged specced seems like a must in this game but 2 (cc and magical effects) purges in inf tree seem like a must too, ekk, i havent come anywhere close to end game so what do i know
    I just went with this guys spec and its working out great.

  6. #6
    Ascendant popsicledeath's Avatar
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    Backstab? lol? Have you tried actually playing a melee in pvp? Even with stuns, you can't count on backstabbing reliably. And I would upgrade and use savage strike anyway, to crit more, and get cruel vengeance, as you'll be attacking a lot and critting a lot, so it's a free buff, basically.

    Shift points away from advanced flanking (to fill cruel vengeance). In pvp you'll usually want to use paralyzing strike for the stun, and who cares if it crits (though the crit is nice to get cruel vengeance up, but something usually crits pretty quickly).

    Whereas subterfuge is good because the added combo point, not because it's going to boost paralyze damage. Sure, all damage is nice, but those points could be spent elsewhere.

    The only 'from the back' thing I would consider is double cross, as you can time final blows a bit better than trying to land backstabs consistently (and getting savage strikes most of the time anyhow), especially with stuns, and 15% more savage strike critting 10% more often is better than backstab, imo.

    You're not really gonna use shadow assault, as it'll take you out of stealth, and it's not that hard to get free to re-stealth in pvp, usually.

    And not taking 6% less damage? If you're an assassin, you're going to be taking heavy damage. Be interested in seeing what's better, 6% reduction or

    Be curious if Cloak and Dagger stacked with Rift Barrier. Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't, unfortunately, but haven't tested it personally, so not sure.

    But, to answer your question, no, imo that wasn't the best melee rogue build.
    -According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsicledeath View Post
    Backstab? lol? Have you tried actually playing a melee in pvp? .
    I stop read here - poster have no clue what he's talking about.


    this is my shoot of the best melee pvp build:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0M0c0V0z.V0x0o

  8. #8
    Soulwalker Diev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by equality View Post
    is the infiltrator tree aquired through pvp? cause i didnt see it when i did an earlier additional soul tree quest?
    You buy the pvp souls from a vendor at the pvp area in major cities, for 2500 favor points.

    Build looks solid although I'd probably ditch Serrated Blades for Double Cross and relocate a few other skills (I like Cruel Vengeance).
    Personally I'd put more points into RS to get Improved Rift Barrier at least. It's really a nice upgrade but I think your build will work good with its increased dmg to players.

    My take on a (mass) pvp build: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....hNobtofodbo.V

  9. #9
    Rift Master
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    I have had better luck NOT opening with the stun. OPEN with the bleed... and the other bleed... and then the finisher bleed. NOW you have all three bleeds on them and your opener bleed has AWESOME crit on its ticks chance. Assassin in pvp is a melee dot spec. Missing that dot really hurts you. You bleed your opponent out... you don't stun them out. Save your 4 second stun for emergency OR better yet save it for AFTER your damage reduction buff for opening falls off.

    Not sure why... but the nightblade combo builder hits harder than the assassin combo builder (basic combo builder). I would have thought they woudl hit the same.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscanlon View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...zsboddo.V0xcho

    comments, praise, excitement, crticism etc

    think 3 pts in imp final blow could go elsewhere because i think annihilate in riftstalker is more powerful even with the 15% bonus, not sure though
    The riftstalker finisher doesn't hit harder than the assassin finisher. Are you just getting that from playing with the soul builder? Why do you think that? If you are just playing with the soul builder you are not really qualified to present the "best melee pvp rogue build".

    I really really doubt the spec you linked will be what people roll with. I really really really doubt it.

    You don't need serrated blades until we see endgame and we are convinced that it becomes good. For the moment it is not good. You can start there.

    Big debate on if assassin or nightblade is better in pvp. Also you need some experience to know how many gap closers you need and how much survivability you need and what the best way to get it is. Is it riftstalker or is it blade dancer? Is the pvp soul better than the utility (or damage) from picking up blade dancer?

    There are many unresolved issues that need to be addressed before we can even remotely say what the best melee rogue will be.

    I hope that the best melee rogue turns out to be a rogue... for all we know it could be a warrior.

    Seems to be atm paragon is greater than blade dancer and riftblade may very well be better than night blade. Is champ better than assassin? Many would say so.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple caballero89's Avatar
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    Has anyone else tried this spec? this is the first time ive realy looked into the Riftstalker's tree and i must say, thats lookin prety fun, all the teleports to get to a target would make up for the lack of a ranged finisher
    Looking to buy Rift, or another PC game? Direct2drive is having a Refer a Friend program where you can get 15% off your order. Click the link and you will get a code, just use the code in the "Promotion Code" slot during checkout.
    http://direct2drive.tellapal.com/a/clk/gCG0c

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    I was simply going by delve damage, the final blow updated after I refreshed the page and it's better than the riftstalker finisher.

    As for serrated blades, to say it's garbage isn't really true because one should always be opening with expose weakness, and this + end game weapon base damage bleeds + poisons will be stacking very small amounts of damage quickly.

    I chose enduring brew and poison mastery because this was more of a solo build, now if you're looking for group spec, I think cruel vengeance would be better. From what I see though most end game poisons would be a combination of leeching poison/cloudy/lethal.

    As for experience, I played all the betas and my rogue is now 30 on live, I've seen all the knockbacks, pulls, and speed abilities to know that rogues need more to close the gap because the second you forget to keep reapplying that stupid snare every 4s it's pretty easy to gain distance(this really should be changed).

    ps, any rogue that doesn't go infiltrator would probably be deemed the worst rogue on the server. even though I hate to compare it's sorta like when I use to play wow and see the rogues running around with illidan blades in tier 6 armor thinking they're badasses, and then they get 2 shot. the purges alone is good enough, don't even begin to talk about the % increase damage/crit on players that bladedancer doesn't have. ideally i would use bd/assassin/riftstalker for pve though

    Quote Originally Posted by rowdysattva View Post
    The riftstalker finisher doesn't hit harder than the assassin finisher. Are you just getting that from playing with the soul builder? Why do you think that? If you are just playing with the soul builder you are not really qualified to present the "best melee pvp rogue build".

    I really really doubt the spec you linked will be what people roll with. I really really really doubt it.

    You don't need serrated blades until we see endgame and we are convinced that it becomes good. For the moment it is not good. You can start there.

    Big debate on if assassin or nightblade is better in pvp. Also you need some experience to know how many gap closers you need and how much survivability you need and what the best way to get it is. Is it riftstalker or is it blade dancer? Is the pvp soul better than the utility (or damage) from picking up blade dancer?

    There are many unresolved issues that need to be addressed before we can even remotely say what the best melee rogue will be.

    I hope that the best melee rogue turns out to be a rogue... for all we know it could be a warrior.

    Seems to be atm paragon is greater than blade dancer and riftblade may very well be better than night blade. Is champ better than assassin? Many would say so.
    Last edited by tscanlon; 02-28-2011 at 05:44 AM.

  13. #13
    Ascendant popsicledeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sten View Post
    I stop read here - poster have no clue what he's talking about.


    this is my shoot of the best melee pvp build:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...0M0c0V0z.V0x0o
    I don't have a clue, or the OP?

    Ya'll must be playing an amazing variation of the game where backstab actually does significantly more damage than Savage Strike and players just stand there letting you beat on them from behind if you miss a stun or they use an ability to get out of it.

    What's gonna happen is you spend points upgrading backstab, and a good number of attacks are going to be savage strikes anyways, but with no boost, and Backstab will barely do more damage that Savage Strike anyway.

    I'm not convinced Serrated Blades will even be good max level. Sure, weapon damage will be increased, but so will HP, and at mid-levels it's not adding enough to bother, so why would it at max level. Even with Expose Weakness, I'm not convinced in pvp it'll be good, which for an assassin is all about the opener, where both of these abilities combined are better once you're established with a lot of damage ticking and it's being used every third GCD (otherwise, imo, the added dps isn't worth it, and even then barely at mid levels). We'll have to wait and see, I suppose.

    So, those 4 points right there get you a ranged finish and ranged snare in NB....

    And people not taking puncture or Subterfuge? Open from stealth, puncture, and finisher... and the person is still stunned if you used paralyzing strike. Without either, you're going to have to burn your second stun just getting to your first finishers.

    Will have to test more, I suppose, but in my experience trying to out DoT your enemy as an assassin is just giving them more time to either kill you, run, or let friends arrive. And there are so many types of CC in Rift, that NOT stunning your enemy as an opener seems like a terrible idea that would only work against people not very good, that are just going to panic and try to run (which granted may be a lot of people!).

    So, you open from stealth, and now they're dotted, but on the move... and you're going to hope they bleed out from your one opener? Or that they don't have any means of getting at range or negating your melee-based snare?

    I suppose there is more than one way to play.
    -According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Ya'll must be playing an amazing variation of the game where backstab actually does significantly more damage than Savage Strike and players just stand there letting you beat on them from behind if you miss a stun or they use an ability to get out of it.

    What's gonna happen is you spend points upgrading backstab, and a good number of attacks are going to be savage strikes anyways, but with no boost, and Backstab will barely do more damage that Savage Strike anyway.
    The 70% snare and some footwork is enough to get Backstabs off. It's not as easy as mashing Savage Strike, and at lower levels you don't crit as much, but I think it will pay off at 50.

    I'm not convinced Serrated Blades will even be good max level. Sure, weapon damage will be increased, but so will HP, and at mid-levels it's not adding enough to bother, so why would it at max level. Even with Expose Weakness, I'm not convinced in pvp it'll be good, which for an assassin is all about the opener, where both of these abilities combined are better once you're established with a lot of damage ticking and it's being used every third GCD (otherwise, imo, the added dps isn't worth it, and even then barely at mid levels). We'll have to wait and see, I suppose.
    The dots add up for extended fights against healers or targets you can't blow up. It's subjective I guess.

    And people not taking puncture or Subterfuge? Open from stealth, puncture, and finisher... and the person is still stunned if you used paralyzing strike. Without either, you're going to have to burn your second stun just getting to your first finishers.
    I agree 100%

    Will have to test more, I suppose, but in my experience trying to out DoT your enemy as an assassin is just giving them more time to either kill you, run, or let friends arrive. And there are so many types of CC in Rift, that NOT stunning your enemy as an opener seems like a terrible idea that would only work against people not very good, that are just going to panic and try to run (which granted may be a lot of people!).

    So, you open from stealth, and now they're dotted, but on the move... and you're going to hope they bleed out from your one opener? Or that they don't have any means of getting at range or negating your melee-based snare?
    You can't stunlock a player from 100 to 0. Paralyzing Strike (PS) and Foul Play (FP) are on the same diminishing return. So PS will last 4 seconds (or less if they have talents that reduce stun duration), and FP will last maybe a second. Then they're on the move, and not even dotted.

    Open with Jagged Strike -> Puncture -> Impale -> Slip Away. Let your energy refill. They won't notice any initial damage yet. Reopen with PS or Assassinate. Now start banging on them with Savage Strike or Backstab. Now the dots start to catch up with them. If they get mobile, at least they are hurting.

    Healers will still be tough at low levels, but the healing debuff you get at 15 Infiltrator should help with that. You can spam it. It can't be cleansed. The cleric section of the beta boards was full of QQ about this.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    Yeah I don't see why people keep complaining about moving while attacking, like it's their first time playing an mmo or something, not sure but landing a backstab in pvp isn't hard at all. I would hate to compare to wow again but the assassin/infil/rift build is almost exactly like a standard mut rogue except now you get free shadowstep, so if you want to learn how to play just watch those videos.

    Quote Originally Posted by modex20 View Post
    The 70% snare and some footwork is enough to get Backstabs off. It's not as easy as mashing Savage Strike, and at lower levels you don't crit as much, but I think it will pay off at 50.



    The dots add up for extended fights against healers or targets you can't blow up. It's subjective I guess.



    I agree 100%



    You can't stunlock a player from 100 to 0. Paralyzing Strike (PS) and Foul Play (FP) are on the same diminishing return. So PS will last 4 seconds (or less if they have talents that reduce stun duration), and FP will last maybe a second. Then they're on the move, and not even dotted.

    Open with Jagged Strike -> Puncture -> Impale -> Slip Away. Let your energy refill. They won't notice any initial damage yet. Reopen with PS or Assassinate. Now start banging on them with Savage Strike or Backstab. Now the dots start to catch up with them. If they get mobile, at least they are hurting.

    Healers will still be tough at low levels, but the healing debuff you get at 15 Infiltrator should help with that. You can spam it. It can't be cleansed. The cleric section of the beta boards was full of QQ about this.

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