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Thread: Anyone else tired of the QQing?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Anyone else tired of the QQing?

    I'm so sick and tired of reading all the threads about "my class doesn't have this, I want that, why can't I do that too?" Blah blah blah. NEWSFLASH: Its beta. No one has even played up to level cap yet, which is what the game is balanced for. Wait until people start hitting level 50 and the top end guilds start progressing through PvE content. I'm sure they'll do parses of the boss fights and then we can truly see which class/combination is most powerful.

    There is something else that has been bothering me; specifically regarding the assassin posts/QQ threads. This game is about intertwining multiple souls (classes) together to work in harmony and to best fit your play style. These arguments about "assassin does less damage than XX and YY" is totally moot because the game is built from the ground up for combining classes together. If your assassin build is doing crap damage, figure out a way to incorporate another class that brings a lot of damage enhancers. I've found that the first two tiers of the Nightblade are awesome for this. Anyone saying, "But I want to play a Riftstalker + Saboteur for the planeshifts and AoE snare" is making the decision to trade damage for utility.

    TL;DR
    Wait until hardcore gamers hit 50, gear up, and parse boss fights before QQ'ing about damage. If you still feel like you do crap damage, give up your low DPS utility soul and pick up a high DPS dmg soul.

    Thoughts?

    (Side note, laughed at myself when I realized this was a QQ thread about people QQ'ing)

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    It's always interesting to see threads about how this class should be nerfed, etc. Most of the time, not all, it's because of PVP. Where a majority of the big MMO's make a mistake is that they balance the game around PVP.

    If people focused on what was fun for them to play(class, not spec) and not on what they thought would do the most damage, most heals, best tank, etc, they would likely not be as dissapointed when they pvp'd. That being said, people play the game for a variety of reasons, and they want to know that they are not wasting their time on a class or spec that isn't the best. Thus, the QQ'ers.

    I also believe that there are just some very bad players and in both PVP and PVE they will never be the best and to make up for their lack of skill they often will complain about other classes, to get them nerfed, to bring them to their level. The correct response, of course, would be for them to get better at their class or spec, but someone hasn't taught them that lesson in real life yet.


    TL;DR - Baddies will be bad. Games shouldn't be balanced around PVP.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara
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    I'm waiting for the reply where someone chastises you for QQing about QQing.

    yes, I'm tired of people complaining too. I think a lot of people feel entitled to everything being their way as if theirs is the only one that's valid.

    This is the game, these are the rules. If you don't like them, try posting constructive reasons why you think X should be Y and submit them for the design team to consider, and then go back to playing by the existing rules.
    A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the lyrics.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashem View Post
    It's always interesting to see threads about how this class should be nerfed, etc. Most of the time, not all, it's because of PVP. Where a majority of the big MMO's make a mistake is that they balance the game around PVP.

    If people focused on what was fun for them to play(class, not spec) and not on what they thought would do the most damage, most heals, best tank, etc, they would likely not be as dissapointed when they pvp'd. That being said, people play the game for a variety of reasons, and they want to know that they are not wasting their time on a class or spec that isn't the best. Thus, the QQ'ers.

    I also believe that there are just some very bad players and in both PVP and PVE they will never be the best and to make up for their lack of skill they often will complain about other classes, to get them nerfed, to bring them to their level. The correct response, of course, would be for them to get better at their class or spec, but someone hasn't taught them that lesson in real life yet.


    TL;DR - Baddies will be bad. Games shouldn't be balanced around PVP.
    I would argue your point. There are a lot of people out there that only play flavor of the week classes. Its disappointed, yes, but its not a fault of the developers. If the game were balanced around PvE and PvE alone, the game wouldn't be able to support PvP. Case in point, Saboteurs. As they apply their charges, they do no damage, so for them to be balanced in PvE, they detonate ability needs to do an insane amount of damage in order to bring their dps to the raid average. While that would work for PvE, after you start gearing out at max level, you'd start one shotting people. It would destroy PvP entirely.

    But yes, baddies will be bad. Its a shame that they are usually the loudest too. There needs to be a god-like filter button. Automatically hides posts from half-******ed people =P lol

    @Dagny_Kiara,
    I already beat 'em to it! At the end of my post! haha! I just want people to chill though. Its not the end of the world. Balancing takes time. And there will always be something just a little "too powerful" that noobs will be drawn to. People should just get used to it now and save themselves some heartache.

  5. #5
    Telaran somniferous24's Avatar
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    It wouldnt be an mmorpg if there werent people qqing on the forums. Common brah

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by xPATRYNx View Post
    I would argue your point. There are a lot of people out there that only play flavor of the week classes. Its disappointed, yes, but its not a fault of the developers. If the game were balanced around PvE and PvE alone, the game wouldn't be able to support PvP. Case in point, Saboteurs. As they apply their charges, they do no damage, so for them to be balanced in PvE, they detonate ability needs to do an insane amount of damage in order to bring their dps to the raid average. While that would work for PvE, after you start gearing out at max level, you'd start one shotting people. It would destroy PvP entirely.

    But yes, baddies will be bad. Its a shame that they are usually the loudest too. There needs to be a god-like filter button. Automatically hides posts from half-******ed people =P lol

    @Dagny_Kiara,
    I already beat 'em to it! At the end of my post! haha! I just want people to chill though. Its not the end of the world. Balancing takes time. And there will always be something just a little "too powerful" that noobs will be drawn to. People should just get used to it now and save themselves some heartache.
    I don't disagree with you. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be balance in PVP, but rather, devs shouldn't balance PVE based off of PVP outcomes. It's not a simple act, balancing classes, etc with millions of people playing all different types of specs.

    As far as Sabo is concerned I don't think anyone can say whether their PVE performance is lacking, as no one is playing a lvl 50 sabo with max gear. That's what the game should be balanced around, not a level 10-19 bracket where someone is getting owned.

    And yes, baddies will always be the first and loudest to complain

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashem View Post
    I don't disagree with you. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be balance in PVP, but rather, devs shouldn't balance PVE based off of PVP outcomes. It's not a simple act, balancing classes, etc with millions of people playing all different types of specs.

    As far as Sabo is concerned I don't think anyone can say whether their PVE performance is lacking, as no one is playing a lvl 50 sabo with max gear. That's what the game should be balanced around, not a level 10-19 bracket where someone is getting owned.

    And yes, baddies will always be the first and loudest to complain
    Ah, okay. I guess I just misunderstood you the first time. I believe PvP should be balanced first, then PvE. You can change a PvE boss fight to adjust. If you change a class to adjust for a balance issue, people will complain endlessly.

    And I was just bringing up the sab to make a point, I don't know how it'll be end game. I was just bringing up a worst case scenario to show the problems of balancing PvE before PvP.

  8. #8
    Rift Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashem View Post
    It's always interesting to see threads about how this class should be nerfed, etc. Most of the time, not all, it's because of PVP. Where a majority of the big MMO's make a mistake is that they balance the game around PVP.

    TL;DR - Baddies will be bad. Games shouldn't be balanced around PVP.
    No, where developers go wrong is they go about pvp balance half arsed. DAoC was the best mmo there has been to date because it was brilliant PvP with a developer who (at the time) understood the balance mechanics. Also, its easy enough to rebalance pve around pvp. So you've changed ranged damage to stop dominating in PvP, just stick a modifier in the mobs? Why not balance PvE around PvP?

    TL;DR - People who want PvE balance should go play a single player rpg and get on msn. See how stupid that argument is?
    Last edited by cyberdine; 02-23-2011 at 09:54 AM.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdine View Post
    No, where developers go wrong is they go about pvp balance half arsed. DAoC was the best mmo there has been to date because it was brilliant PvP with a developer who (at the time) understood the balance mechanics. Also, its easy enough to rebalance pve around pvp. So you've changed ranged damage to stop dominating in PvP, just stick a modifier in the mobs? Why not balance PvE around PvP?

    TL;DR - People who want PvE balance should go play a single player rpg and get on msn. See how stupid that argument is?
    What's funny is you took it personal. I said the DEVS(unless you're a dev here) shouldn't balance a game around PVP. There is a pvp aspect to the game, but let there be no doubt, that if a game is to have longevity, the part that people stay for is the PVE.

    Goals and rewards in any MMO typically use a random-ratio reinforcement schedule based on operant conditioning. Early achievements are quick, almost instantaneous, and gradually take more and moretime and effort. Most forms of advancement in MMORPGs require increasing cooperation or dependency on other users, oftentimes mutually beneficial.

    Again, TL;DR - PVP is fun. PVE will keep the player-base(balance around that)

  10. #10
    Rift Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashem View Post
    What's funny is you took it personal. I said the DEVS(unless you're a dev here) shouldn't balance a game around PVP. There is a pvp aspect to the game, but let there be no doubt, that if a game is to have longevity, the part that people stay for is the PVE.

    Goals and rewards in any MMO typically use a random-ratio reinforcement schedule based on operant conditioning. Early achievements are quick, almost instantaneous, and gradually take more and moretime and effort. Most forms of advancement in MMORPGs require increasing cooperation or dependency on other users, oftentimes mutually beneficial.

    Again, TL;DR - PVP is fun. PVE will keep the player-base(balance around that)
    So... thats why that DAoC died not long after it launched eh

  11. #11
    Plane Touched ralinsilver's Avatar
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    Servers are not up yet, Flame wars are the only PvP we get till tomorrow.
    Ralinblack - Faemist - Onineko - Assassin - LvL 50 - Rank 2
    Ralinsteel - Faemist - Onineko - Warrior - LvL 10 - Fear me!

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Default You know What

    The single worst quotes are people saying "Wait till 50" for anything.

    The game starts at level 1 - NOT 50. People shouldn't have to 'put up' with whatever imbalances there maybe just to get to the 'magical' level 50 where everything is in balance.

    Gildon

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdine View Post
    So... thats why that DAoC died not long after it launched eh
    You're kidding right? Go look up the maximum population of ALL of the DaoC servers at anytime. A few thousand people.


  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gildon View Post
    The single worst quotes are people saying "Wait till 50" for anything.

    The game starts at level 1 - NOT 50. People shouldn't have to 'put up' with whatever imbalances there maybe just to get to the 'magical' level 50 where everything is in balance.

    Gildon
    You obviously haven't played many mmo's and for that I will give you a pass...but let there be no doubt the real game and balancing CANNOT start until max level, with max skills. That's why there are 51 point skills that are much more powerful than the 50 preceding.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Timukas's Avatar
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    Most whiners are PVPers but thing is that no one can never satisfy those psychos. If you read nerf and QQ posts in Rift forums then you see what am I talking about. Seen them doing it in so many games that I cannot believe that some day they just relax and play. And let others play.

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