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Thread: A few quick questions for Beta Rogues please.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default A few quick questions for Beta Rogues please.

    Sadly I did not attempt to get in on any of the beta action and am now paying for it. >.<

    But tomorrow I will have a shiny new rogue skipping around stabbing stuff and have a few questions.
    I have poked around (no pun intended) the last couple of days scrounging for information on rogues so I don't waste the headstart time. Or at least minimize it since I can't help but level crafting skills while I level.

    Should I invest fairly heavily into bard until I am in my mid 20's to early 30's? Or longer?

    Will the crafted greens (Outfitter) plus quest rewards basically hold me over on armor until my 30's to 40's?

    Read somewhere that during one of the betas there was a weapon speed normalization that occurred. So should I just equip whatever has the best stats/dps on it? Are there any weapons I should steer clear of?

    Going Defiant because I have some guildies that I am following over here that chose Defiant apparently. So Is Kelari or Eth my best choice? Seems the racials got kicked in the pooter but I haven't seen if there are differences in starting stats for each race.

    Also the guildies that I am following over decided on an Open RvR server, is life going to be harsh until level cap? I figure if I am going heavy bard for leveling RvR probably won't be much of an issue, but what if I go light on bard leveling?

    Any other constuctive input would be GREATLY appreciated since I am going in on this a little more blind than usual.

    I guess a reference point for me would be Release witchelf (WAR) and old school rogue (EQ original) I enjoyed more than AoC's sin. But I still did enjoy AoC's sin...
    I say Release witchelf because over time they jacked around with them up until I left WAR (didn't leave because of them, left because too little too late and all my friends had left).

    Thanks again.

    Jorm

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormunrek View Post
    Sadly I did not attempt to get in on any of the beta action and am now paying for it. >.<

    But tomorrow I will have a shiny new rogue skipping around stabbing stuff and have a few questions.
    I have poked around (no pun intended) the last couple of days scrounging for information on rogues so I don't waste the headstart time. Or at least minimize it since I can't help but level crafting skills while I level.

    Should I invest fairly heavily into bard until I am in my mid 20's to early 30's? Or longer?

    Will the crafted greens (Outfitter) plus quest rewards basically hold me over on armor until my 30's to 40's?

    Read somewhere that during one of the betas there was a weapon speed normalization that occurred. So should I just equip whatever has the best stats/dps on it? Are there any weapons I should steer clear of?

    Going Defiant because I have some guildies that I am following over here that chose Defiant apparently. So Is Kelari or Eth my best choice? Seems the racials got kicked in the pooter but I haven't seen if there are differences in starting stats for each race.

    Also the guildies that I am following over decided on an Open RvR server, is life going to be harsh until level cap? I figure if I am going heavy bard for leveling RvR probably won't be much of an issue, but what if I go light on bard leveling?

    Any other constuctive input would be GREATLY appreciated since I am going in on this a little more blind than usual.

    I guess a reference point for me would be Release witchelf (WAR) and old school rogue (EQ original) I enjoyed more than AoC's sin. But I still did enjoy AoC's sin...
    I say Release witchelf because over time they jacked around with them up until I left WAR (didn't leave because of them, left because too little too late and all my friends had left).

    Thanks again.

    Jorm

    I will let others answer most of that. However I was lvl 26 after not to much effort and I had 1 blue wep, 4-5 blue armor and the rest green rewards. The blue armor being from faction reputation gain. I did not notice outfitter gear to much as I did not focus at all on it, I took butchering and got it to 61 and outfitter I got to 5-7 and just didn't have time to mess with it. I have heard from others on here that the crafted gear can be surpassed by quests easily.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormunrek View Post

    Going Defiant because I have some guildies that I am following over here that chose Defiant apparently. So Is Kelari or Eth my best choice? Seems the racials got kicked in the pooter but I haven't seen if there are differences in starting stats for each race.

    Jorm
    Hi! For starting race i would go with Eth. The racials were just kicked of raids, but in pvp and pve still apply so why not The eth speed is a lot more usefull than the stupid fox, for rogues anyway. Also the +10int racial boost from the Eth is better than the +10dex boost from the kelari. You'll get tons of dex from rogue gear and talens, but +int is a lot harder to come by and gear for, giving you a nice boost to your bard and nightblade, therefore, a more flexible class.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Hi! For starting race i would go with Eth. The racials were just kicked of raids, but in pvp and pve still apply so why not The eth speed is a lot more usefull than the stupid fox, for rogues anyway. Also the +10int racial boost from the Eth is better than the +10dex boost from the kelari. You'll get tons of dex from rogue gear and talens, but +int is a lot harder to come by and gear for, giving you a nice boost to your bard and nightblade, therefore, a more flexible class.
    It is my understanding that all rogue abilities, including ranged and bard, are based off the same traits... IE Dexterity. Int is useless for a rogue.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barathorn View Post
    It is my understanding that all rogue abilities, including ranged and bard, are based off the same traits... IE Dexterity. Int is useless for a rogue.
    Just checked it out and you're right, heals and magic scale with dex/AP for rogues. Cadence heals are affected directly by weapon dmg so it seems that int is useless for bards/nb . But the eth look so much better though
    Last edited by Sethrus; 02-23-2011 at 05:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormunrek View Post
    Should I invest fairly heavily into bard until I am in my mid 20's to early 30's? Or longer?
    I would reccomend your first extra role be a support bard. its a useful ability to have, being able to switch to it in warfronts or for dungeons can make things work a lot easier. Unless you want to have a bard based soloing buid for leveling, which is good enough at being a bard in most cases to support a warfront/dungeon.

    Will the crafted greens (Outfitter) plus quest rewards basically hold me over on armor until my 30's to 40's?
    Being an outfitter is handy in the early levels. Im sure it can help patch holes here and there at higher levels too. The main reason you want to be an outfitter though is so you can make things to runebreak for your runecrafting. Since you cant get runes from other sources (you can get ruins from a few other sources, but not to the point it can enchant anywhere near all your equipment, the only other runes ive seen are faction vendor ones that are only for belts).

    Read somewhere that during one of the betas there was a weapon speed normalization that occurred. So should I just equip whatever has the best stats/dps on it? Are there any weapons I should steer clear of?
    Yes. In my experience if you have two weapons of equal dps, the slower one will still be a little bit better. But you should more or less just go for the highest DPS weapon you can find. Only picking slower if you can chose between equal dps weapons.

    Going Defiant because I have some guildies that I am following over here that chose Defiant apparently. So Is Kelari or Eth my best choice? Seems the racials got kicked in the pooter but I haven't seen if there are differences in starting stats for each race.
    They removed the stat bonuses, so basically

    Kelari = You can turn into a fox that has a very small agro radius, meaning you can get past areas with out getting agrod easier

    Eth = 70% speed boost for a few seconds.

    Both are somewhat useful while questing, the fox for bypassing certain areas, the run speed for running back to a quest hub and not having to wory about getting killed. Neither are usable in combat. For a rogue i would say that perhaps the eth one is slightly more useful, sicne you can stealth past things. But in the end, you can get mounts as early as you can afford them, which should be just a few hours into the game. (or a free one at level 1 if you got the CE).

    The powergamer in me says that eth is better for a rogue, but it really wont matter. They are even removing the ability to use them at all in instances in the latest patch. Pick the race you think looks best.

    Also the guildies that I am following over decided on an Open RvR server, is life going to be harsh until level cap? I figure if I am going heavy bard for leveling RvR probably won't be much of an issue, but what if I go light on bard leveling?
    Well it depends. bards have their isnta CC and in combat run speed boost. I play on a pvp server and did not find ganking to be a huge problem, i got ganked a couple times, but theres no death penalty and the person was long gone when i got back. There were a few open world fights when a group of us fought a group of the enemy, but it did not last long. And even if you are a bard if someone is a lot higher than you they will probably be able to kill you unless they are horrible. But leveling in this game is so fast you can get to 50 and not worry about being outleveled.

    Just have the fastest leveling build you can, if someone ganks you great, good for them, go back to leveling. If they stick around and are not a lot higher then you, then just switch into a more pvp oriented role and go remove them.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Thanks for all of the input thus far. I really appreciate it.

    Quick question on the pvp aspect.

    Are there really any solid benefits to rolling on open-rvr (pvp/whatever) server in Rifts?
    I am to understand that the Warfronts are cross-server so there shouldn't be any big loss there.
    Benefits like in DAoC and Warhammer type of stuff. Or any "realm affecting" aspects I guess.

    Or is it just for ****'s and giggles?

    I played open-rvr in Warhammer, but it kind of made sense to there.

    Dunno been up all night so the brain is wandering about a bit. =/

    Jorm

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny5 View Post
    I will let others answer most of that. However I was lvl 26 after not to much effort and I had 1 blue wep, 4-5 blue armor and the rest green rewards. The blue armor being from faction reputation gain. I did not notice outfitter gear to much as I did not focus at all on it, I took butchering and got it to 61 and outfitter I got to 5-7 and just didn't have time to mess with it. I have heard from others on here that the crafted gear can be surpassed by quests easily.
    From personal experience I would say that this was generally true in beta that quested gear was normally superior to crafted gear for the level. However, the one benefit to crafted gear in rift is that you can obtain crystals that will provide boosts to a specific stat on any crafted piece of gear.

    As a result you are sometimes able to make a piece of gear that has better focused stats for you intended role.

    I personally got runecrafter over 200 and outfitter to 190 by level 36 and found it was quite easy to do so. Some of the gear I made had excellent stats for their level, especially when I used crystals to boost dex or endurance values.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Don't use Bard for leveling it's useless or/and it's better to take ranger for the pet. You will level up faster.
    I don't know why people say that bard is good for leveling and the pet can eventually tank 3 mobs (u don't aggro mobs if you are careful). I had 2 level 42 during beta ( 2 rogues ) and i found that bard was good, but not the best.

    But you should take bard as 4th soul, because it's very nice for instance/major rift, there is too much dps so you'll be grp faster as bard.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormunrek View Post
    Thanks for all of the input thus far. I really appreciate it.

    Quick question on the pvp aspect.

    Are there really any solid benefits to rolling on open-rvr (pvp/whatever) server in Rifts?
    I am to understand that the Warfronts are cross-server so there shouldn't be any big loss there.
    Benefits like in DAoC and Warhammer type of stuff. Or any "realm affecting" aspects I guess.
    Mainly for the danger of living in an environment that you may be attacked in. Or the fun of a zone getting together to go get some enemy thats running around.

    The game doesnt really have rvr. There are some attackable objectives in enemy territory but its more of something to do if you want to go to enemy territory than a reason to go there.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrEkonomie View Post
    Don't use Bard for leveling it's useless or/and it's better to take ranger for the pet. You will level up faster.
    I don't know why people say that bard is good for leveling
    Have you ever tried a good hybrid bard leveling build or have you just used bard attacks and assumed that was it? =P

    Bard has one thing no other rogues has. The ability to generate 5 combo points in 3 seconds, over and over, with out using any cooldowns or special situations.

    This means that if you buff up a finisher to be as strong as you can (+15% to finishers from night blade, and a good strong finisher to start with, i like assassin since they can get an extra +15% damage to their finisher with just 3 points ivnested) you can use that finisher once every 4 seconds.

    The result when i parsed it was around 100dps at level 20, with half that damage coming from just that one finisher, the other half coming from a combination of cadence/power chord/auto attacks.

    I am certain that a pure melee dps spec can outdamage that yeah, but not while being able to stay at 100% health permanently and never having any downtime.

    I have leveled two rogues to level 25 as part of my low level rogue testing to find the fastest way to level. I did a ranger based build and a build like i described above.

    The ranger only did slightly more damage, and i had to run to loot the corpses. With bard they come to you.

    Overall i think they are very close in time-to-level, at least for the first 25 levels.

    I cant speak of after that, but then you factor in the bards 20% movement speed they can get making going around quest areas faster/easier i would bet that a similar build would be good at higher levels.

    Now, in the 30s i hear pure melee rogues really come into their own, im sure a build based on killing fast and lowering downtime such as the rift stalkers heal-from-combo point return may be able to just chain through enemies faster than a bard based build (or a ranger basd build)

    But for the low levels, i would say a bard based build is good if you do it right.

    I would be leveling as that come release if i did not want to take the opportunity to learn another soul combos hotkeys

  12. #12
    Champion
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    ALWAYS have the highest dmg weapon in your main hand.

    Regardless of weapon speed/dps listings. All those melee abilities that say they go off of wpn dmg + x-x dmg are rating off of your main hand. I've heard mumblings that in dw cases the average of the two is what abilities go off of but until I see evidence of this I don't believe it.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    1>31 http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MMNi.GVRcx0f.V.V0x No downtime, easy to use, mob die in 5combo point or 8sec ( +1 or +2 level mob ). Melee + Pet
    31>42 http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...VMcfub0c.V0x0b. Range + Pet, i hope all the melee skill will not be fixed( or maybe it's normal, dunno ). Heal your pet and that's all. You don't have to buff, heal ( only your pet ), just 3/4 skills so very easy to use.
    Rotation is : "Expose Weakness" => "Quick Shot" => "Piercing Shot" => "ShadowFire"(or 2 Quickshot if CD) => "Quickshot" => "Head Shot" => Loot. While attacking, just run to the mob to be ready to loot. Then switch target with "Expose Weakness", your pet will automatically attack, you should have all the buffs popped "Prey on the Weak" "Cruel Vengeance" and "Bestial Fury" ( +10% +15% +5% )
    Last edited by DrEkonomie; 02-23-2011 at 08:28 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    And things die in two finishers (also 8 secs) for a bard/assassin/nightblade

    You dont have to run over to the body either.

    You buff as you run to another fight. Since one buff lasts up to 3 pulls you rarely have a time that you are in range of something and needing to spend time buffing.

    Theres also no reason to do more than the attack power and crit chance buff.

    And you have movement speed buff between fights (or always later on)

    The running to loot thing puts me off ranged really as being efficient alltogeather.

    As i said i imagine pure melee dps specs with some sort of downtime reducing thing, probably from riftstalker, may pull ahead in the 30s.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    I also used a assasin build, using poison to heal myself. It worked well only few level 32>36
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MMpi.GARfh00qb..V0x

    Someone tryed it? I had never downtime, but i was very carefull and risky The main advantage of this was i was able to avoid pvp ( lost of time )

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