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Thread: White Damage for Bladedancer

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default White Damage for Bladedancer

    Has anyone tested the value of 5/5 in Blade Finesse in terms of how much dps is actually added to the white damage? Does the opportunity cost of giving up those 5 points exceed the boost to sustained dps? In my experience white damage was such a small part of a rogue's overall dps that I never took the talent, but then again the highest I ever got my rogue was 27.

    I would appreciate the input of some higher-level Bladedancers. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    While my BD only got to about as high as yours i figured id give you my two cents which would at least bump your thread.
    IMO the 50% to white dame is more of a pve talent then anything else. For the 5 points you would gain additional utility/ burst either from within BD tree or by adding those points into a support soul like assassin or infiltrator, i.e. The second tier infiltrator damage talent.

    Its apples and oranges, but i did main a feral druid in wow which had a similar talent called savage roar that upped white dps by 50%. The talent was great for pve due to the large increase in dps over a longer boss fight but in pvp fights either didnt last long enough to get the full benifit of the talent and it just didnt put out enough extra pressure to be worth it in most situations.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraden View Post
    While my BD only got to about as high as yours i figured id give you my two cents which would at least bump your thread.
    IMO the 50% to white dame is more of a pve talent then anything else. For the 5 points you would gain additional utility/ burst either from within BD tree or by adding those points into a support soul like assassin or infiltrator, i.e. The second tier infiltrator damage talent.

    Its apples and oranges, but i did main a feral druid in wow which had a similar talent called savage roar that upped white dps by 50%. The talent was great for pve due to the large increase in dps over a longer boss fight but in pvp fights either didnt last long enough to get the full benifit of the talent and it just didnt put out enough extra pressure to be worth it in most situations.
    Thanks. I also played a feral in WoW but in WoW white damage appeared to be a much larger component of overall dps for both rogues and feral druids. In fact a combat rogue in WoW with the talent to proc an extra swing was a must-have in most pve builds due to that bonus white damage.

    I do have PvE dps in mind when considering the bladedancer, as I think that other rogue souls make for better pairs with infiltrator (assassin/nightblade and riftstalker (for reals!)/bard). Can any experienced BD players comment on the value of 50% boost to white damage?

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    My 'gut feeling' is that white damage is pretty worthless, and those 5 points are much better spent elsewhere. I remember reading about some level 30 discussion where 6% of the rogue's damage was white damage.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    A good way of looking at Rift's white damage is to imagine you were a level 50 within WoW. The values will end up being just about the same. Taking that into consideration, white damage is pretty much worthless since it is, indeed, a very small portion of dps at this range. In fact, it wasn't until tier 2-3 within wow (at level 60) when white damage became a big deal. It only increased further with higher levels until it reached the point it's at now.

    Assuming Trion intends to follow a similar pattern, white damage will remain a small portion of any characters DPS until higher damaging weapons are released. Furthermore, Trion appears to actually have lower damage and DPS set on level 50 weapons, so white damage becomes even less valuable. In the end, white damage is virtually useless for anything other than drawn out PvE battles. If you're not planning on doing that, then I would just skip it entirely.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    White damage may be a significant minority, but when you're talking about a 50% boost for 5 points you really need to know how much of a minority.

    For something to measure by:

    If you do 10% of your total damage as white damage, you're getting a 1% damage increase per point of Blade Finesse.

    If it is 15% of your total damage, you're getting a 1.5% damage increase per point.

    20% of total damage : 2% damage increase per point.

    25% of total damage : 2.5% increase/point.


    I think you'd really need to run a combat log and see what percentage of your total damage is white in order to have a realistic value of what Blade Finesse does for you.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by trutanen View Post
    My 'gut feeling' is that white damage is pretty worthless, and those 5 points are much better spent elsewhere. I remember reading about some level 30 discussion where 6% of the rogue's damage was white damage.
    Hello I'd like to chime in on this, and this bloke here has it correct.

    I've been playing since beta 3 before they normalized combat and attack power was still added to white damage. Since attack power no longer adds to white damage, white damage is useless. Before the ability was something like +25% increase to white damage, and when they nerfed white damage they upped the talent to what 50%? What they really needed to do was up it to about 100% for it to really be worth while.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Iam curious if you guys are factoring in any + dmg to physical attacks like blade tempo which adds 30% to physical damage

    If 50% to increased auto attack damage is worthless that will be very disappointing, but in any case thats 5 points to put else where.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander JMaggot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resraely View Post
    Hello I'd like to chime in on this, and this bloke here has it correct.

    I've been playing since beta 3 before they normalized combat and attack power was still added to white damage. Since attack power no longer adds to white damage, white damage is useless. Before the ability was something like +25% increase to white damage, and when they nerfed white damage they upped the talent to what 50%? What they really needed to do was up it to about 100% for it to really be worth while.
    Thanks very much. I was wondering about this while I was figuring out what my 3rd soul will be in my Nightblade/Assassin build for PvE. I think I'll take something over BD if white damage is a very low percent of our DPS.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    I was thinking about this too. It will come down to your % of white damage. It may be that when you get better weapons it would be worth it. I want to run a nightblade/sub spec into assassin build and I was going to make my third soul a BD but the BD abilities when you're only going up to just the extra AA damage kind of suck compared to putting more points into NB or Sin souls. That being said, the alternatives in PvP are infiltrator which has extremely nice damage bonuses that would likely outweigh the +50% AA gain or a riftstalker for plane shifting (there are other options but I don't believe them to be that good at this point and they would need to be tested). However, for PvE raids a nightblade won't need to planeshift and we can't use the PvP soul so maybe the 50% AA damage would be worth it then.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    I read something about instant abilities in Rift use part of your auto-attack damage, but for the life of me can't dig up where I read that. Any truth to that?

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psomatose View Post
    I read something about instant abilities in Rift use part of your auto-attack damage, but for the life of me can't dig up where I read that. Any truth to that?
    Close but slightly off. They all use you WEAPON damage which is not the same thing as your auto-attack damage. It does not increase weapon damage in the slightest.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Tenison_Grey's Avatar
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    http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8...1902552258.jpg

    Here's the damage breakdown of a couple of Lantern Hook runs as a lvl 42 Nightblade. During that run I was using an 18.5 DPS blue axe in my main and a 18.3 DPS blue sword in my off. Auto Attack did 35k Damage and only accounted for 6% if my total damage. Before when Attack Power boosted it, AA was about 24% of my damage.
    Last edited by Tenison_Grey; 02-23-2011 at 07:47 AM.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Zantetsuken's Avatar
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    It's worth noting that using BD as a PvE raiding subspec, the other talents in T2 will be mostly useless. Lets say you want to hit T4 for Blade Tempo, the obvious choices for progression are Combat Expertise, Blade Finesse and Ambidextrous, by virtue of the fact the other talents aren't really worth taking.

    For a deep BD spec it may prove to be naff, but for some of the other souls it has uses, mostly in PvE.
    Zantetsuken - 50 Warrior - Firesand EU RP-PvP
    Charisma - 50 Rogue - Firesand EU RP-PvP
    Eldrenna - 13 Cleric - Firesand EU RP-PvP

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    I wouldn't be using a blade dancer soul for PVP at all, personally. The other souls have much better utility.

    The white damage is worthwhile in a pve damage build. That build will be a glass cannon. With blade dancer as a secondary for a stalker tank, bonus white damage is not particularly useful.

    Of note: The auto attack damage is affected by every damage, crit, and hit enhancing trait. Anything that increases all of your damage by 5% increases your white damage by 5%. However, auto attack damage ONLY affects single target combat.

    The majority of the time my dancer's aoe damage vastly outperformed my single target damage. That's why ability damage for a blade dancer looks so much better on paper. I still took the bonus to auto damage. It's very good for fights like the golem at the bottom of the mines instance in Stonefield, and pretty much any boss fight with multiple single or single-single targets you have to down quickly.

    Regardless, for leveling you wound find points in some combination of assassin, nightblade, riftstalker, marksman, and ranger. I leveled Blade Dancer from 1 and I can tell you, it is a gear-dependent, level-depedent, weapon-dependent soul build.

    42 Blade Dancer-Assassin-Nightblade (Affectionately called "Dan-Sin-Blade")
    42 Riftstalker-Bard-Blade Dancer (Dubiously, "Bardstalker")
    Last edited by FeosMiao; 02-23-2011 at 08:19 AM.

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