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Thread: Definitive Bard Damage Ability thread

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Vannis's Avatar
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    Default Definitive Bard Damage Ability thread

    Hi guys,

    there is lots of well researched information out there on what abilities etc affect the main three bard damaging abilities (Cadence, Coda of Fury and Coda of Wrath), as well as an excellent support bard guide. I did not however, upon reading the guide see a definitive (as far as can be at this stage) account of what abilities would and would not affect each of these Bard damaging abilities and so am creating this thread to try to consolidate that knowledge. Maybe once this is done it could be added as a section to the support bard guide.

    I am going to post a format that people can then reply to with their knowledge and can build it up from there.

    Cadence
    Base damage : Highest DPS of mainhand weapon or ranged weapon (depends on which is currently used to autoattack) + atk power to deal life damage to target

    what does it benefit from?:
    Attack power -Confirmed as scaling with attack power
    Abilities that add dmg to combo point generating attacks (e.g blazing fury)
    Non-physical attacks modifier (i.e unstable state, nightblade) ?
    Abilities that proc from crits (e.g cruel vengeance)

    What does it definitely NOT benefit from
    Physical attacks modifiers? (e.g murderous intent)
    Spell power?
    Weapon enchantments - confirmed that weapon enchantments will not proc with cadence

    Coda of Wrath/Fury
    Base Damage : Combo point total + atk power + Highest DPS of mainhand weapon or ranged weapon (depends on which is currently used to autoattack) to deal life damage to target

    What does it benefit from?
    Abilities that add to the damage of finishers (e.g coup de grace, confirmed as adding to dmg, so these must be classed as finishers although not stated in ability text)
    Additional attack power
    Non-physical attacks modifier (i.e unstable state, nightblade) ?
    Weapon enchantments? Can poison/hellfire blades etc proc from coda of wrath/fury hits?

    What does it definitely NOT benefit from
    Abilities that add to the damage of finishers (e.g coup de grace)?
    Spell power?

    I am not trying to go into the maths of how much each effects the damage of these abilities, merely to create a definitive answer as to which abilities will and will not add to each of the bard damage abilities. Please respond with confirmed (with parsing) information on what affects what and i will adjust the post above accordingly. I am sure there are abilities that affect the damage that i have missed and some that people would definitely want to know to avoid. Please state the name of an example ability along with your information (e.g DOES benefit from non-physical damage modifiers - i.e unstable state)

    Thanks in advance for any contribution

    Vannis
    Last edited by Vannis; 02-20-2011 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Updated coda benefits

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Vannis's Avatar
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    *bumped*

    Someone must have some input !

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    Rift Disciple
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    Posted this on your identical post over at RiftBards.com. I'll repost it here just to help spread around information:

    Bards are interesting in that all of our abilities are non-physical, but they scale with Attack Power. And from what I've see, all of them do from damaging abilities to healing.

    Unstable State and Blazing Fury both increase Cadence damage (and thus Cadence healing). You have to remember that all Cadence damage is dealt by Life damage, so that means weapon buffs such as Virulent Poison will not proc with Cadence. But, Cruel Vengeance in the 3rd Tier of Assassin will proc off Cadence crits.

    One thing a lot of people seem to confuse also, which weapon is Cadence using? It all depends on what weapon you're auto-attacking with. So if your bow does higher damage than your main-hand melee weapon, it might be better to toggle Range auto Attack.

    I haven't been able to test if and how we scale with Spell Power. Either way, it's not very feasbile for us to attack Spell Power anyways. Although I would be interested in finding out if we can effectively 'double dip' with AP and SP.

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    Soulwalker Vannis's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, have updated original post with your information. Still need a definitive answer on whether spell power adds to cadence and coda damage. Also anything else that has been overlooked would be welcome

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    Shadowlander Quoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vannis View Post

    Coda of Wrath/Fury
    Base Damage : Combo point total + atk power + Highest DPS of mainhand weapon or ranged weapon (depends on which is currently used to autoattack) to deal life damage to target

    What does it benefit from?
    Some debate about whether they count as finishers so:
    Abilities that add to the damage of finishers (e.g coup de grace)?
    Non-physical attacks modifier (i.e unstable state, nightblade) ?
    Weapon enchantments? Can poison/hellfire blades etc proc from coda of wrath/fury hits?
    Hey Van,

    Coda of wrath/fury DOES benefit from abilities like Coup de grace. (lvl 22, 200 ish non crit without CdG, 224ish with 4/5 CdG)

    I've not thought to try out whether it also works with non-physical attack modifiers, but as Cadence (also life damage) benefits from these I would assume that it does indeed... it's also nearly a moot point as it's worth taking Unstable State simply for the benefit it gives to Cadance.

    Weapon enchantments only proc when that weapon hits so I can't see hellfire blades working at anything other than melee range but again I have no hard data.

    I'll be sure to test these in headstart and will post more then.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Which attack power do these scale from? Strength? Dex? It's rather confusing half the time because I'm not too sure which one to get more of. My 2nd soul is Ranger and 3rd is Riftstalker for the blink, so i'm mostly stacking Dex, but i'm not sure if that is effecting my cadence and codas more than strength though.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Good info. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeovanti View Post
    Which attack power do these scale from? Strength? Dex? It's rather confusing half the time because I'm not too sure which one to get more of. My 2nd soul is Ranger and 3rd is Riftstalker for the blink, so i'm mostly stacking Dex, but i'm not sure if that is effecting my cadence and codas more than strength though.
    Attack Power is the absolute best stat.

    Dexterity is second. 2 DEX = 1 AP. Dexterity also adds Critical Strike and Dodge.

    Strength is third. 2 STR = 1 AP. Also adds Block (useless) and Parry.

    Endurance is probably 4th, although I've heard some people consider it better than STR simply for survivability. Probably rated higher if you PvP a bit.
    Last edited by Marduke; 02-20-2011 at 08:31 PM.

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    Soulwalker
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    The OP mentioned that the base damage of cadence is effected by the current weapon. Does that mean that it can benefit from MM talents like Keen eye? And if so does that make MM the best secondary soul to bard?

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Been playing a bard and love it. Current build has been Bard, Ranger for the pet and Nightblade for Unstable State and Blazing Fury. Though am wondering if it would be worth swapping out Nightblade for Saboteur to take advantage of Nimble Fingers. The extra 15% dex seems like it could be quite worthwhile though this is all from a solo perspective at the moment so would rather not loose the pet. In dungeons etc I would take out Ranger of course.

    Ideas?

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Langston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vannis View Post
    Hi guys,

    there is lots of well researched information out there on what abilities etc affect the main three bard damaging abilities (Cadence, Coda of Fury and Coda of Wrath), as well as an excellent support bard guide. I did not however, upon reading the guide see a definitive (as far as can be at this stage) account of what abilities would and would not affect each of these Bard damaging abilities and so am creating this thread to try to consolidate that knowledge. Maybe once this is done it could be added as a section to the support bard guide.

    Vannis
    You got me there Vannis. I had not done the research for all the damage modifiers when I wrote the guide. That wasn't my main focus. I know a few points in the thread it was mentioned what worked with Cadence. I know I posted my results from one of the beta phases with all the numbers that I used as well.

    Once the game goes live and we get all of this sorted out I'm sure either Rhapsody(Marduke) or myself will get a guide up over there that details Bard damage.

    Great work on your part here breaking some of it down. One thing not on here that I think we need to really test is how Attack Power scaling works with Coda of Restoration. That is also one of our bread and butter codas.

    Anyway, good job here.
    Author of Support Bard Guide and Officer of Nuln Highway Boys

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathscythe View Post
    The OP mentioned that the base damage of cadence is effected by the current weapon. Does that mean that it can benefit from MM talents like Keen eye? And if so does that make MM the best secondary soul to bard?
    Keen Eye does not affect Bard abilities. In fact, MM has about the worst synergy with Bards, out of all the Rogue trees in my opinion (assuming you're trying to buff Bard abilities with MM traits).
    Last edited by Marduke; 02-20-2011 at 11:46 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langston View Post
    Great work on your part here breaking some of it down. One thing not on here that I think we need to really test is how Attack Power scaling works with Coda of Restoration. That is also one of our bread and butter codas.
    From my testing, it seems to be 10AP per 1HP added to Coda of Restoration. The rounding is pretty straight forward. For example 50-59AP will ALWAYS heal the same amount. Once you hit 60AP though, you will see the +1 to the Coda.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by Marduke; 02-21-2011 at 12:03 AM.

  14. #14
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    Also, I can confirm that Coda of Wrath's scaling *at 5 combo points* is 3AP per 1 DMG.

    Again, it depends on your total AP to determine when it increases. Divisible by 3.

    So at 30, it will be +1 DMG. At 33, +1. 36, +1. 39, +1, etc.


    Edit: Let me note that this is not to say that scaling won't change at higher ranks of the ability.
    Last edited by Marduke; 02-21-2011 at 01:07 AM.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Avir's Avatar
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    I'll post my reply from www.riftbards.com here as well:

    It would appear that ALL our skills (that are capable of skill scaling) scale with Attack Power and Physical Crit. So despite a lot of our skills being "spells", dexterity is still the prime stat to stack because it increases both the power and critical strike chance for these skills.

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