+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 27

Thread: A honest look at Nightblade, please rate this post!

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    44

    Default A honest look at Nightblade, please rate this post!

    Ok, against all "brotherhood" and "guild" rules, I am going to talk about Nightblade for a few momoments before I get "silenced".

    My hope is this gets seen by the devs and they think one of these ideas has merit.

    Great game, good class, I am having crazy fun.

    Here are a few observations about my favorite "soul'. Overall our dps is lower than many other classes, but the fun factor is high. We have poor burst so pvp can be tough sometimes, but I am still having fun so no QQ from me.

    With that in mind, I suggest,


    Twilight Force - For a skill you can sink 5 points into it seems a bit lackluster especially after I put all 5 points into it. NB's only have one ability that gives them 2 combo points and its on the same timer as Twilight Force. I would suggest either upping the damage, lowering the total points needed to invest or adding another combo point. Twilight Force seems to be the ranged version of Dusk Strike, but its only half the damage, one combo point and requires 2 invested points to have a decent snare. Compared to other skills in other trees, for 5 points, I would think you would get a bit more.


    Stealth - I know Assasins should be the king of stealth, but NBs design with thier stealth seems a bit off. We have 4 abilities that are great, but they require stealth. (even though some of the tooltips don't say they require stealth, like "Smother"). The problem is, with the exception of "Lost Hope" you can only use one of the abilities and then you are unstealthed. In a pvp situation (and some pve) it is very difficult to get back into stealth. This negates 3 (or 4) of our best attacks for what can be a long very long time.

    Further, you have to pick between "Dark Malady" and "Ebon Terror" as you can't do both. Given that "Dark Malady" is so overwhelmingly better, there is no need for "Ebon Terror" whatsoever once you have "Dark Malady". I would suggest "Ebon Terror" should be on a cool down and useable outside of stealth as we could use a 2 sec in combat stun. Same with "Smother". Put them on a cooldown and let us have more of our tools in combat.

    Lastly, attacks that do not add combo points.

    If you use a global cooldown and do not create at least one combo point you are in essence giving up 1/5 of whatever finisher you are going to use. This can result in a net dps loss when (if) you use firey chains or weapon flare against single target or even 2 (or 3). I think weapon flare is awesome (even if it doesn't hit hard), but firey chains even if you put points in it can be a dps loss to use due to the lack of combo point, it dosn't really hit that hard and the damage is very weak. The +15% we get in our tree to attacks that create combo points do not apply to these attacks and I think that may be one of the reasons why they are so weak in the damage. As it is right now "firey chains" is not worth putting on a hot key, or investing points into.

    If you got this far, thanks for reading, please rate my post! or if your a devs, see if this has merit. I am having great fun and see you guys in release.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    26

    Default

    You really dont know how good you have it. I'm going to compare assassins to nightblade since they are both the classes with stealth.

    Twilight Force - For a skill you can sink 5 points into it seems a bit lackluster especially after I put all 5 points into it. NB's only have one ability that gives them 2 combo points and its on the same timer as Twilight Force. I would suggest either upping the damage, lowering the total points needed to invest or adding another combo point. Twilight Force seems to be the ranged version of Dusk Strike, but its only half the damage, one combo point and requires 2 invested points to have a decent snare. Compared to other skills in other trees, for 5 points, I would think you would get a bit more.
    Nightblade : Twilight Force is a ranged attack that benefits an additional 50% from attack power, adds a combo point and snare (50%).
    Assassin : Malicious Strike is a melee attack that doesn't benefit from attack power, doesn't add a combo point and snare (70%).

    Nightblade 1, Assassin 0

    ----------------------------------------------
    Stealth - I know Assasins should be the king of stealth, but NBs design with thier stealth seems a bit off. We have 4 abilities that are great, but they require stealth. (even though some of the tooltips don't say they require stealth, like "Smother"). The problem is, with the exception of "Lost Hope" you can only use one of the abilities and then you are unstealthed. In a pvp situation (and some pve) it is very difficult to get back into stealth. This negates 3 (or 4) of our best attacks for what can be a long very long time.
    Nightblade: (sap, 2 sec stun, silence, 20% improved damage for 8 seconds), all 20 meters range
    Assassin: (sap, 4 sec stun, direct damage, Bleed DoT), all melee range

    At higher level, most assassin in pvp uses the bleed opener because assassinate is too weak. Number would have to be crunched to know which opener between Dark Malady and Jagged Strike is the strongest ... but even without numbers, I will still give that round to Nightblades because all their stealth opener have 20 yards range.

    Nightblades 2, Assassin 0

    ----------------------------------------------
    Further, you have to pick between "Dark Malady" and "Ebon Terror" as you can't do both. Given that "Dark Malady" is so overwhelmingly better, there is no need for "Ebon Terror" whatsoever once you have "Dark Malady". I would suggest "Ebon Terror" should be on a cool down and useable outside of stealth as we could use a 2 sec in combat stun. Same with "Smother". Put them on a cooldown and let us have more of our tools in combat.
    You want another CC? You do realise Dark containement last longer than blind and has half its cooldown? Assassins do have a melee stun, but you have very decent range attacks. I guess it evens out.

    ----------------------------------------------
    Lastly, attacks that do not add combo points.

    If you use a global cooldown and do not create at least one combo point you are in essence giving up 1/5 of whatever finisher you are going to use. This can result in a net dps loss when (if) you use firey chains or weapon flare against single target or even 2 (or 3). I think weapon flare is awesome (even if it doesn't hit hard), but firey chains even if you put points in it can be a dps loss to use due to the lack of combo point, it dosn't really hit that hard and the damage is very weak. The +15% we get in our tree to attacks that create combo points do not apply to these attacks and I think that may be one of the reasons why they are so weak in the damage. As it is right now "firey chains" is not worth putting on a hot key, or investing points into.
    Fiery Chains and Weapon Flare are AoE moves without noticeable cooldowns (6 seconds for fiery chains). You do realise other melee classes AoE on short cooldown doesn't give combo points (Rift Disturbance) or hits only 2 targets (Twin Strike). Even worst, Assassins dont have have a single AoE move. You are just being greedy.

    Nightblade 3, Assassin 0
    ----------------------------------------------

    I wish Dev will ignore this whiny post.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Wow I wasn't really trying to have NB be compared to the worst rogue class at the moment, but maybe take a look at the points that I made.

    Could assasins use a dev look. Yes.

    Do all the things in the NB tree and talents make sense balance wise. No.

    They have nothing to do with one another.

    Sorry, your class is having a tough time but don't pee on my observations :P


    I am sure you know if you go in a Warfront you don't see a bunch of NB's or Assasins. But you do see alot of
    MM
    Rangers
    Bards
    Sabos

    And
    OP ranged warriors.

    So instead of comparing us to your busted class (which could use some help for sure) maybe you should look at exactly what I said about comparing points spent for returns or how one skill negates another.
    Last edited by Dashai; 02-20-2011 at 07:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Your talking about Nightblades

    Stop talking about Nightblades

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Nightblade are fine.

    - They dont need CP on aoe abilities

    - They already have a very effective stealth and effective stealth openers ... with range!

    - Their damage in melee is on par with other classes (but staying in melee PvP is hard in this game). Their damage from range is not the best, but decent enough. At least they do have some. It's called being a hybrid. If you get ranged attacks, you have to sacrifice something else.

    The classes you compare Nightblade to are all ranged. Nightblades are at their best from melee. The reason everyone rolls ranged class is because snares aren't effective enough in this game and gap closer aren't enough (the only effective rogue gap closer being flash of steel from 21 points BD talent). Maybe the problem doesn't lie within the nightblade class.

    Beside, there is a reason why every nightblade's fan doesn't want people to talk about them. They have some pretty OP abilities within their soul.

  6. #6
    Telaran drizzet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    51

    Default

    if played right a nightblade is the highest or second highest rouge soul for dps
    http://blackwolf.biz/

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyric View Post
    The highlighted word here means you don't really know. In essence you are in no way qualified to assume it is garbage. Looks like you will be about as useful as a screen door on a submarine so I may as well add you to forum ignore since your advice is highly flawed. Good-bye.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Odaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrodinger View Post

    ----------------------------------------------


    Nightblade: (sap, 2 sec stun, silence, 20% improved damage for 8 seconds), all 20 meters range
    Assassin: (sap, 4 sec stun, direct damage, Bleed DoT), all melee range

    At higher level, most assassin in pvp uses the bleed opener because assassinate is too weak. Number would have to be crunched to know which opener between Dark Malady and Jagged Strike is the strongest ... but even without numbers, I will still give that round to Nightblades because all their stealth opener have 20 yards range.

    Nightblades 2, Assassin 0
    Nightblade is perfectly fine as it is, but this is ridiculous =p you get a 15% damage increase everytime you use a stealth opener. Nightblade stealth openers are great because of the range, but assassin has better openers imo (stun + 15% dmg increase or bleed + 15% damage increase).
    Last edited by Odaman; 02-20-2011 at 10:01 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Odaman View Post
    Nightblade is perfectly fine as it is, but this is ridiculous =p you get a 15% damage increase everytime you use a stealth opener. Nightblade stealth openers are great because of the range, but assassin has better openers imo (stun + 15% dmg increase or bleed + 15% damage increase).
    Isn't Dark Malady High damage +20% damage increase?

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Dont forget the assassin +15% damage for x seconds comes from a talent. You can't put it into the equation because those same 2 points can be used for something else by the nightblade.

  10. #10
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Assassins are fine. I routinely kill nightblades and other rogues for that matter. Bards are hard for me but... they are bards.


  11. #11
    Plane Walker Odaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    394

    Default

    By that logic nightblade has no snare because you have to put 3pts into a talent.

  12. #12
    Telaran drizzet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Odaman View Post
    By that logic nightblade has no snare because you have to put 3pts into a talent.
    good thing we are talking about damage and not cc then
    http://blackwolf.biz/

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyric View Post
    The highlighted word here means you don't really know. In essence you are in no way qualified to assume it is garbage. Looks like you will be about as useful as a screen door on a submarine so I may as well add you to forum ignore since your advice is highly flawed. Good-bye.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Odaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    394

    Default

    Reread the post, he compares snares, stealth openers, and aoes.

    Nightblade damage is better than Assassin no doubt, but the comparison of openers is not as clear cut as the rest. I still don't get why the assassin snare does not grant a combo point.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Aglethe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jahat View Post
    Isn't Dark Malady High damage +20% damage increase?
    Well, I'm not in game to look right now, but I think DM does have a bit better base damage than Paralyze, neither attack is all that big in and of its self though. I think the point was more just that DM gets you 8 seconds of +20% damage + range, but Para can get you 4 seconds of stun + 10 seconds of +15% damage and -15% incoming damage, making Para the stronger of the two overall. Though that ignores the 3 points you have to spec into the openers to get that damage boost and reduction. DM used to be better when it was a debuff and it boosted the damage of everyone attacking the target, though the change was a bonus for AoEing Sab primaries I suppose.





    As to the OP's points:

    As long as Twilight Force is (at least potentially) a snare, it'll keep working the way it does (I might rather see the snare moved to another attack and have the damage and cool down reduced on TF though personally). As far as 2 CP builders go, all of the melee rogues have only one of them. I believe Rangers are the only soul that gets two, and both of theirs have cast times (Bard only gets one, but it's on a 3 second cooldown, it deals about the same damage as a 1 CP attack though).

    As others have said, Sins have pretty much the same problem with stealth openers, two good ones, but the first one they get is pretty useless. So Ebon Terror is about par for the course. One interesting thing about it for PvP though, is that it distorts the targets screen a fair bit, it's not exactly a flash bang, but it does have somewhat of that effect.

    Weapon Flare is fine enough the way that it is, the only real problem with it is the talent that boosts it, if you're using WF you're going to spam it, so adding a DoT effect to it isn't all that beneficial. Fiery Chains on the other hand doesn't have much use in it's current form. I could see adding a CP to it (wether by talent or innately) or reducing/removing the cool down, or maaayybe both, if it involed talents and a sizable damage reduction. Alternatively, it might be interesting to change FC into the NB's snare (it matches the theme of the Chains part) and turn Twilight Force (minus its AP bonus) into a more spamable attack.

    Rangers get a zero cooldown 5 target CP builder (Trick Shot) in the branches, which can be talented to give a 15% chance of an additional CP for each additional target hit beyond the first (it's not a very high damage attack though). Marksmen get Fan Out (fairly early on in the root) which doesn't build a CP, hits the same number of targets as Chains but has no cool down, and can be traited to hit up to an additional 2 targets. Dual Strike is the only melee CP builder that hits multiple targets yes, but it's a fairly weak ability. There should really be a talent (probably fairly deep into the tree, so that it was mainly helping BD primaries who actually need the boost) like the Champion's Follow Through to add additional targets to Twin Strike and Combination Strike.

    Back to the subject of Weapon Flare and Fiery Chains, one other thing I'd like to see changed is the Enkindle talent that boosts the two. As it stands, the DoT effect mainly benefits FC because of the cooldown, but the spamable WF doesn't gain much out of it. I'd rather see it work more like the Primal Death talent and add a chance for a good sized damage boost, or reduce the damage of the DoT, but instead have it stack up to a burst like Smoldering Blades.

    On balance though, Nightblades are in a good place, so those are more nitpicks than real high priority issues.

    -Aglethe
    Last edited by Aglethe; 02-20-2011 at 12:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arturo Perez-Reverte
    "He no longer had the youth, the innocence, or the desire to go and fight at a place chosen by his opponents, three duels arranged in ten minutes, in the grounds of the Carmelite convent or wherever the hell it might be. When the time came to say hello, he'd make sure he approached Rochefort with everything in his favor, if possible from behind, with a steel bar in his hand... Corso would settle his debts calmly. Biding his time."

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Aglethe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Odaman View Post
    I still don't get why the assassin snare does not grant a combo point.
    I suppose it's down to the (lack of a) cooldown. The Sin snare is an 8s 70% melee snare with a 0s cooldown, the NB one is a 6s 25/50% ranged snare with an 10/9/8s cooldown and generates a CP. Of course it takes 5 talent points to maximize its effectiveness though.

    -Aglethe
    Quote Originally Posted by Arturo Perez-Reverte
    "He no longer had the youth, the innocence, or the desire to go and fight at a place chosen by his opponents, three duels arranged in ten minutes, in the grounds of the Carmelite convent or wherever the hell it might be. When the time came to say hello, he'd make sure he approached Rochefort with everything in his favor, if possible from behind, with a steel bar in his hand... Corso would settle his debts calmly. Biding his time."

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts