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Thread: Ultimate Snap Aggro AoE Rogue Tank

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Vell's Avatar
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    Default Ultimate Snap Aggro AoE Rogue Tank

    Description

    This tank build takes advantage of the Saboteur's ability to generate combo points without gaining aggro in addition to its snap AoE burst damage abilities.

    Advantages: Highest AoE snap aggro of all tanks. High Dodge. Fairly high mitigation due to 45/51 points in Riftstalker for Improved Guardian Phase and Improved Rift Guard.

    Disadvantages: Slowest pull speed of all tanks because of its long setup time. Very complex ability rotation. Not viable until minimum level 39 because of requirement of the Riftstalker's Improved Guardian Phase and the Saboteur's Silent Setup ability.


    Build:

    Riftstalker 45 / Saboteur 13 / Bladedancer 8
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...zRokR.VcMc.x0d


    How to Use the Build

    1) Make sure that you are in Guardian Phase and have your Combat Pose and Planebound Resilience buffs up

    2) Start off by putting up 5 charges of anything on any enemy (it doesn't matter what, you will be overwriting the charges after anyways). This will not gain aggro because of the Saboteur's Silent Setup.

    3) Use Riftguard (Still no aggro? Cool beans!)

    4) Put up 5 Shrapnel Charges on your first kill target (Spike or Blast Charge if there is only one enemy)

    5) Shadow Blitz (Shadow Assault if there is only one enemy)

    6) Guarded Steel (Full duration Guarded Steel Buff at the begining of the fight? Sounds good to me!)

    7) Rift Disturbance (If more than one enemy)

    8) Phantom Blow once (To get a combo point for the next step, 2% damage reduction is nice too)

    9) Detonate (Sure it will not do much detonate damage, but you just set off 5 AoE Shrapnel Charges and gained a massive amount of threat)

    10) Phantom Blow once (To up damage reduction to 4%)

    11) Put up 4 Shrapnel Charges (Spike or Blast Charge if there is only one enemy)

    12) False Blade (60 seconds of 5% extra dodge)

    13) Rift Disturbance (If more than one enemy)

    14) Phantom Blow once (To get a combo point for the next step, and increase Damage Reduction to 6%)

    15) Detonate

    From this point on just be sure to keep Guarded Steel, False Blade, Riftguard and Annihilate up (In that order of importance). Guarded Steel and False blade should be easy to keep up since they should always be on a set 60 second timer, but keep an eye on Riftguard going down early because of the shield running out. Use Rift Disturbance whenever possible if there is more than one enemy and build combos with Shrapnel Charge for 3+ enemies, Twin Strike for 2, and a combination of keeping up 3 stacks of Phantom Blow with Quick Strikes, Keen Strikes and Reprisals in between for one enemy)
    Last edited by Vell; 02-22-2011 at 07:48 AM. Reason: Some clarifications in rotation and finisher priority thanks to Nanduan

  2. #2
    Ascendant popsicledeath's Avatar
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    Cool build. I love seeing people do something other than rifstalker/bladedancer/bard.

    My concern is not much tanking benefits in sab tree (dex help a bit, of course), and by the time you're detonating for aoe threat, I wonder if it's needed. Meaning I've done some pretty brutal aoe groups, and never had problems keeping agro with riftstalker abilities.

    I like getting Rift Guard up pre-pull, though. I did a similar build with ranger, so I could pull with the dot for two combo and quickshots and was 5 combo points before getting hit.

    Both builds like this, that build points quick, are nice because you can free up 4 points from Rift Barrier and not lose survivability in the first moments of a fight. And since you won't need to be shifting for Rift Barrier, I cut out the other shift-related buffs and just started not shifting at all except for mobility. Frees up a lot of points to put other places, if one wishes to not go as deep in RS tree.

    Cool build though. And you're the tank, so people have to wait for you to build charges. :P
    -According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Fasc's Avatar
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    Wow pretty cool actually. Not sure it'll ever be needed given the strength of our "normal" AoE skills but... I likes it nonetheless! Could be useful for speeding through a dungeon while AoEing everything down super fast. I assume you can place charges for no threat no matter what, meaning if the pull you're on is about to die, you could already be placing charges (they'd cost Energy though) without actually pulling the group. Once you have RG/GS rolling you could just stack and Detonate and keep rolling.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    not sure u would want to but you could also...

    get the free guard via charges like him.
    then reaply 5 charges, do a AOE annihilation bomb.

    ten guys run to u but u still have 5 charges as Annil bomb dosnt take them and then
    guarded steel. both guard and steel would be up at the beginning of thhe fight with
    plenty of threat...

    hmm.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Vell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasc View Post
    I assume you can place charges for no threat no matter what, meaning if the pull you're on is about to die, you could already be placing charges (they'd cost Energy though) without actually pulling the group. Once you have RG/GS rolling you could just stack and Detonate and keep rolling.
    Hah, I never really though about putting the charges up on the next pack before I am done the first. Perhaps it is not so slow to pull after all (as long as the packs of mobs are close enough together).

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnlavoie View Post
    not sure u would want to but you could also...

    get the free guard via charges like him.
    then reaply 5 charges, do a AOE annihilation bomb.

    ten guys run to u but u still have 5 charges as Annil bomb dosnt take them and then
    guarded steel. both guard and steel would be up at the beginning of thhe fight with
    plenty of threat...

    hmm.
    Cool idea, but that would require too many more points in Saboteur and there really are no more to spare.
    Last edited by Vell; 02-22-2011 at 05:28 AM.

  6. #6
    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    I like the idea behind the build. Only thing that's bothering me is the time it takes for you to pull.

    Also, the main advantage is more AOE threat, which you don't need in my opinion. Rift disturbance and Shadow blitz are all you need.
    Last edited by Cinerus; 02-22-2011 at 05:30 AM.

  7. #7
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    Nice (different) build, i like it.

    Keep in mind, that @ the high levels, riftstalker is not an avoidance tank usually, its an absorption tank, they try to get as much hp as possible, that, and spamming rift disturbance + shadow blitz (if you ever need it) is more then enough to hold agro on almost anything aoe.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Vell's Avatar
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    The main points of the build are to

    A) Allow Rift Guard to be up from the beginning of the fight (since it is better than rift barrier and frees up those points to use elsewhere)

    B) Get Huge AoE threat right from the start so your trigger happy AoE DPS can start going full-out damage right from the beginning of the pull.
    Last edited by Vell; 02-22-2011 at 05:39 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vell View Post
    The main points of the build is to

    A) Allow Rift Guard to be up from the beginning of the fight (since it is better than rift barrier and frees up those points to use elsewhere)

    B) Get Huge AoE threat right from the start so your trigger happy AoE DPS can start going full-out damage right from the beginning of the pull.
    I understand the points and even though i like it, those points are almost never mission critical unless you are tanking something that severely out levels you.

    Rift disturbance really IS good enough, that after one use, they can aoe all out.

    Perhaps further down the track, the instant rift guard might come into its own, but at that stage you will need to max out your hp so rift guard is the best it can be.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethernia View Post
    I understand the points and even though i like it, those points are almost never mission critical unless you are tanking something that severely out levels you.

    Rift disturbance really IS good enough, that after one use, they can aoe all out.

    Perhaps further down the track, the instant rift guard might come into its own, but at that stage you will need to max out your hp so rift guard is the best it can be.
    never lost aggro as a riftstalker/bladedancer/bard as our aoe threat is insane, higher than reavers, so adding more at the cost of super long pulls = not worth it. who wants to wait to pull? hell if in a melee heavy group just let the 2nd melee pull before your done with combat and pick it off of him cause you can kill really fast with this tank setup.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Nanduan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vell View Post
    Description

    This tank build takes advantage of the Saboteur's ability to generate combo points without gaining aggro in addition to its snap AoE burst damage abilities.

    Advantages: Highest AoE snap aggro of all tanks. High Dodge. Fairly high mitigation due to 45/51 points in Riftstalker for Improved Guardian Phase and Improved Rift Guard.

    Disadvantages: Slowest pull speed of all tanks because of its long setup time. Very complex ability rotation. Not viable until minimum level 39 because of requirement of the Riftstalker's Improved Guardian Phase and the Saboteur's Silent Setup ability.


    Build:

    Riftstalker 45 / Saboteur 13 / Bladedancer 8
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...zRokR.VcMc.x0d


    How to Use the Build

    1) Make sure that you are in Guardian Phase and have your Combat Pose and Planebound Resilience buffs up

    2) Start off by putting up 5 charges of anything on any enemy (it doesn't matter what, you will be overwriting the charges after anyways). This will not gain aggro because of the Saboteur's Silent Setup.

    3) Use Riftguard (Still no aggro? Cool beans!)

    4) Put up 5 Shrapnel Charges on your first kill target (Spike or Blast Charge if there is only one enemy)

    5) Shadow Blitz (Shadow Assault if there is only one enemy)

    6) Guarded Steel (Full duration Guarded Steel Buff at the begining of the fight? Sounds good to me!)

    7) Rift Disturbance (If more than one enemy)

    8) Phantom Blow once (To get a combo point for the next step, 2% damage reduction is nice too)

    9) Detonate (Sure it will not do much detonate damage, but you just set off 5 AoE Shrapnel Charges and gained a massive amount of threat)

    10) Put up 5 Shrapnel Charges (Spike or Blast Charge if there is only one enemy)

    11) False Blade (60 seconds of 5% extra dodge)

    12) Rift Disturbance (If more than one enemy)

    13) Phantom Blow once (To get a combo point for the next step, and increase Damage Reduction to 4%)

    14) Detonate

    From this point on just be sure to keep Riftguard, Guarded Steel, False Blade, and Annihilate up (In that order of importance). Use Rift Disturbance whenever possible if there is more than one enemy and build combos with Shrapnel Charge for 3+ enemies, Twin Strike for 2, and a combination of keeping up 3 stacks of Phantom Blow with Quick Strikes, Keen Strikes and Reprisals in between for one enemy)
    The rotation on this setup is flawed. I have a guide to Riftstalkers coming out as well as a weekly riftstalker companion coming out shortly and I must say although the build is useful for dungeons the rotation needs to be more thought out than this.

    Firstly, PB is 3 stacks for 6% dmg reduction for 20 secs that should be up EVERY time you can keep it up. All rotations should start off with a PB * 3 after original AOE starters. Guarded Steel, False Blade and Rift Guard are priority in tanking.

    I want math on this build...give me the math and I will agree with this being a great build and fix the rotation. I would even include it giving credit in the weekly if the information is updated.
    Nanduan Goldenstar
    Staff Member of Tank Telara
    Tank of Telaran Aristry and the Aristry of War
    http://www.tanktelara.com

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Looks like a clever, fun build. Nice to see someone experimenting outside the box a bit.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Vell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanduan View Post
    The rotation on this setup is flawed. I have a guide to Riftstalkers coming out as well as a weekly riftstalker companion coming out shortly and I must say although the build is useful for dungeons the rotation needs to be more thought out than this.

    Firstly, PB is 3 stacks for 6% dmg reduction for 20 secs that should be up EVERY time you can keep it up. All rotations should start off with a PB * 3 after original AOE starters. Guarded Steel, False Blade and Rift Guard are priority in tanking.

    I want math on this build...give me the math and I will agree with this being a great build and fix the rotation. I would even include it giving credit in the weekly if the information is updated.
    I agree, the rotation could use some tweaking, I did not get to play with it as much as I would want to and by no means think it is perfect. Please feel free to make comments on adjustments you would make and why. Also keep in mind I made this as an 'unconventional but effective build'. In the rotation I gave, Rift Guard should definitely come up first since it is usually the first to go down and less important to have a long duration left on the buff timer than Guarded steel (thus Rift Guard has some of its timer count down used up while the rotation prepares to put up combo points for Guarded Steel for during the initial pull). The only reason I put Rift Guard ahead of Guarded Steel for 'importance' is because Guarded Steel and False Blade should be really easy to keep up while Guarded steel can sometimes need refreshing before the buff timer runs out. I suppose my order of importance comment could thus be a little misleading so I will change my wording.

    As for PB, I found that the buff tended to just stay on naturally by using it to get a combo point for detonate so I never paid much attention to it. I guess if you are really worried about 2% extra mitigation for the first few seconds you could use it instead of charges. I will update the rotation to include PB.

    Edit: I edited the rotation to have full PB by the second combo. I also clarified the finisher priority with the edit note:

    Last edited by Vell; Today at 03:48 PM. Reason: Some clarifications in rotation and finisher priority thanks to Nanduan

    Any feedback with solid reasoning is always welcome.
    Last edited by Vell; 02-22-2011 at 07:50 AM.

  14. #14
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Is snap aggro AoE a concern for tanking? I wasn't aware TPS was an issue for Rogue tanks.
    Not trying to be condescending or look down at a different build. Is this build fixing a particular flaw with Rogue tanking or is this just something unique for personal enjoyment?

  15. #15
    Ascendant popsicledeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vell View Post
    The main points of the build are to

    A) Allow Rift Guard to be up from the beginning of the fight (since it is better than rift barrier and frees up those points to use elsewhere)

    B) Get Huge AoE threat right from the start so your trigger happy AoE DPS can start going full-out damage right from the beginning of the pull.

    A) Planar Switch can facilitate this, and from 30m, for 1 point in RS tree. As well, Ranger you can manage this from ranged if you train your group to wait for the pull and not rush it like zerglings, by using ranged abilities that can build combo points before you get hit.

    And in both scenarios, Rift Guard can be put up at range, too.

    B) As far as the rotation, you don't seem to be getting the AoE threat/damage from Sab explosion until 6 GCD's into the rotation? That's not terrible, but by then you can almost execute a second Rift Disturbance.

    I can't recall if Rift Guard causes agro from ranged, as I was usually pulling so fast in instances it was already up from the previous pull or using it at range in pvp, but either way, I think a sab secondary has more merit still using Planar Switch, actually, because then coupled with Sab charges you can basically have Rift Guard and Guarded Steal up both before you've taken any serious damage at ranged and during the pull, and then your first combo cycle you can use detonate, which means it will be that much earlier in a fight and you won't have to sacrifice any of the other defensive finishers.

    Stills seems like a lot of points into Sab when it doesn't seem we really need much help with aoe aggro, but maybe that changes. And you can still get Rift Guard up pre-damage with Planar Switch or even Ranger ranged attacks (my group knew not to engage until I'd Shadow Blitzed the group had got them all herded together, shrug).

    It's great seeing new builds, but I'm still not sure this build is doing much you can't already do. Of course, I'm all for flavor builds, and don't think this build would be 'wrong' necessarily. This would be especially awesome for a group where you aren't needing to max out defense, and may not even be in Guardian Phase, as then I wonder if the added damage of the Sab AoE would be enough to safely keep agro without the hit to our damage and with the benefits in Stalker Phase.
    -According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.

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