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Thread: rogue stun

  1. #1
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Default rogue stun

    Im playing a Bard atm and loving it, but today during warfronts i was in a team with 3 other bards so i thought it was time to buy a new roll. Im always getting stuned and CC'ed by rogues on my bard so i thought i would roll a sneakier rogue than my main lol

    I didnt realy want to go ranged so i went NB/sin/RS
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MpiM.z.VhtoG0xR.0V0c

    My question is, where are the stuns? Which tree are they in? The build above was something i came up with on the spot for the warfronts... it was only then that i realised that while attacking from stealth i wasnt procc'ing a stun.

    Any help would be awesome, or just point me to a link. This has probably been covered before but i couldnt find anything.

  2. #2
    Telaran DR0ne's Avatar
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    16 pt sin root skill

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Finkle's Avatar
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    Foul play and Paralyzing Strike in the Assassin soul are both stuns. Paralyzing strike is a stun from stealth. Foul Play is a 4 second stun on a 30 sec cooldown.
    Finkle: Dwarven Rogue
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  4. #4
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Thanks alot guys

  5. #5
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Well i switched to this build http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0toM.0VMct0foz
    but the DPS is abysmal

    I have nearly as much DPS on my bard and tons more survivability, it isnt my gear either i dont think.
    Im using a blue sword and dagger, and almost all my armor is blue. I realy dont know what the problem is tbh but its pointless giving up the survivability of a bard for an extra 5-10% DPS.
    Last edited by Arcticred; 02-18-2011 at 11:59 AM.

  6. #6
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Default

    /bump

    Anyone got any clue why my dps is so bad with this build?

  7. #7
    Champion P-51's Avatar
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    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MpiM.V.V0x.0VMct0rod

    Start with this direction, That should improve dps.

    Then work your way towards

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0x.0iMct0rRdoo

    That should give avoidance, surprise, and dps.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Cheddar Puma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51 View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MpiM.V.V0x.0VMct0rod

    Start with this direction, That should improve dps.

    Then work your way towards

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0x.0iMct0rRdoo

    That should give avoidance, surprise, and dps.
    I've been looking for a better Assassin PvP build, but I ask: do you only have 10 points in Nightblade for the combo points and finisher stats, or do you actually use the NB abilities in combat?
    When life gets you down . . . make a comforter.
    Jake - Sacred Fire - Sunrest

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    Champion P-51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheddar Puma View Post
    I've been looking for a better Assassin PvP build, but I ask: do you only have 10 points in Nightblade for the combo points and finisher stats, or do you actually use the NB abilities in combat?
    I only use the Nightblade for the passive abilities.
    I play a Saboteur Night, and either Assassin or Rift. Not sure yet which way I will go.

  10. #10
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51 View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MpiM.V.V0x.0VMct0rod

    Start with this direction, That should improve dps.

    Then work your way towards

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0x.0iMct0rRdoo

    That should give avoidance, surprise, and dps.

    Well i tried a build similar to the top one you posted, DPS still sucks tbh.

    Finishing blow hits for 250-350 without crit
    On my bard Coda of Wrath hits for 300+ every time without crit.

    Also take into account that the combo points are much easier to come by using cadense.
    Added to this is the fact that Bard gets a nice movement speed buff.
    Assassin and other melee rogues realy need buffing imho, having a similar damage output to a Bard with none of the survivability that a Bard has is just crazy. I know that the assassin gets a couple of stuns at my lvl (lvl30 atm) and their opener from stealth is descent damage, but it still doesnt make it a worthwhile tradeoff for me.

    Im gonna keep the assassin for open world 1vs1 PK'ing and stick with the Bard for warfronts i think, unless they up the DPS for launch.
    Last edited by Arcticred; 02-19-2011 at 08:48 AM.

  11. #11
    Telaran serenics's Avatar
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    On my assassin i tend to open up with a rotation like this

    Jagged Strike > Puncture > Impale > Foul Play > Savage Strike > Final Blow

    and the reason i tend to use this sort of rotation is not for the amazing burst but for a good bit of sustained damage. So it might seem a bit of a odd but last night my Jagged Strike was crit ticking for 150-180, Puncture was crit ticking for 90 ish and Impale was crit ticking for 190-220. These don't sound like big numbers but don't forget in the excess of 439 damage a second at level 32. So once i have applied all of these in a space of a second or 2 then i would Foul play the target and thats another 4 seconds on taking 430 damage a tick before they can do anything, by this time there taken somewhere around 2500 ish damage and i normally tend to find they cant do much after there out of the stun its just a matter of time before the dots kill them. I not had a single problem with Bards or any healer with this spec yet

    Since theres diminishing returns on stuns i don't see the point of opening with a Paralyzing strike since the Foul Play within the next 20 seconds would be halved.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M_M_..bARfx0bod0R
    Last edited by serenics; 02-19-2011 at 09:10 AM. Reason: added my assassin build
    Neurosis - Assassin - Giving Guardians Free Favor Since Beta

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenics View Post
    On my assassin i tend to open up with a rotation like this

    Jagged Strike > Puncture > Impale > Foul Play > Savage Strike > Final Blow
    Is Final Blow really worth using with 1 combo point?



    For PvP:
    In any case, There is no real viable stunlock that I can see. I agree that, for an assassin, the goal of your opening from stealth appears to be getting them bled with jagged, puncture, impale, and hopefully 1-3 stacks of serrated. You can get your controllable bleeds on them in the first 3 attacks from stealth... so everything after that is pressing the advantage.

    It is really looking like there is very little in the assassin tree that you can do to take advantage of that. I'm not sure if it is the intention or not, but looking to other souls provides a better way to press that advantage. Most players will have at least 1 way to escape.

    Riftstalker provides a way to get back on that target (assuming they fix the teleports so that you actually end up back on the target instead of a couple feet behind them... but that's a different story). You can get back on the target with a vengeance after they've used their escapes: Slip out of any roots/stun/snare they put on you, and get back on them with +15% damage and +15% crit chance (for very effective Serrated Blades stacking). It can also provide you with tools you need to survive the "grinding down" process: -% damage taken, increased endurance, a shield when you teleport. It also gives you +15% attack power (for nastier opening bleeds).

    Nightblade provides a good amount for a much cheaper investment. They don't provide a distance closer like Riftstalker, but a ranged DoT that stacks with itself and with all of your bleeds. It also provides better setup (ranged incapacitate), and again greatly improves your opening bleeds with +15% damage to your impale, jagged, and puncture.

    Blademaster has a sprint and a distance closer, but the investment is very steep to get the distance closer... but if you want to go that route you get +5% hit, +15% dex, +50% autoattack damage, a short CD distance closer (with a root!), the choice between sprint or a physical damage cooldown, and a 15 point energy refund after your first impale... among other things.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that trying to stunlock them to death is pointless and difficult to do. What the assassin really does in PvP is gain a huge advantage from stealth (either natural or through a Slip Away -> restart bleedy goodness). Since you cannot stunlock them down from this, the only other logical strategy is to press the initial advantage through pursuit and continued pressure... which you will largely get from your 2nd and 3rd souls.

    As for Malicious Strike: There are several rogue mobility attacks that provide a combo point, but they're typically 30 energy instead of 20. It would be nice to get that extra combo point, but it would almost certainly come at the cost of +10 energy to Malicious Strike. Not really sure how I feel about that. With a 70% snare I also don't think they would give a flat duration increase. Perhaps it could be changed so that it is two tiered (6 seconds of 70% snare followed by 4 seconds of 50%?) or given an ability in the soul tree to increase the duration by 2 seconds every time you hit the target with a combo point attack? I actually think that Malicious Strike is quite good, the real reason I think it is being attacked as weak is that Assassins really lack mobility.



    PvE is another story.
    A class that focuses so much on their opening is going to run into problems in PvE where the fights tend to last longer and the openings are less important because of this. I really lack a good answer on how to make a class built like the assassin viable in PvE, viable in PvP, and doing so without completely redesigning how assassin's function.

  13. #13
    Telaran serenics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xetal View Post
    Is Final Blow really worth using with 1 combo point?
    Perhaps i should of said savage strike untill 5 cp or when you fell you could finish the fight, but no way did i only mean 1 savage strike
    Neurosis - Assassin - Giving Guardians Free Favor Since Beta

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Ahhh, I should have figured that. I was wondering if you knew something I didn't, hehe

  15. #15
    Rift Master Arcticred's Avatar
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    Well im back to eat some humble pie

    I changed to this build http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MiMp.V0x.MARfx0bod0R
    It is so much better than my old build its like night and day, when i go PK'ing now i kill almost anyone 1vs1 and in WF its 100 x better than it was.

    I think getting impale made all the difference, there is nothing quite like jumping the partys healer and getting killed by the group and then seeing the healer die from the dots before he can heal :P

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