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Thread: Serious suggestions about SABOTEUR (from a Saboteur)

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Lightbulb Serious suggestions about SABOTEUR (from a Saboteur)

    Hi everyone, I've been playing a lot rogue souls and in the last betas I've played mostly Saboteur or Marksman.

    A lot of people have been complaning about Saboteur and I personally think that, actually, there are some issues that should be corrected.

    Here are some suggestions that may improve class balance.


    - First, charge have to breake the effect of skills like incapacitate or roots ( With incapacitate I'm able to put: Time bomb, 5 different charges and detonate, without the target even moving. This usually leaves the target with 1\8 of life, or even less. Usually i kill them with 1 more charge).

    - COMBAT SURVIVAL: this skill must be changed. Only 2 points for a 50% time reduction on snares and stuns is way too much. I suggest to turn it into a 5 point skill (each point giving 10% time reduction).

    -CHARGE BOOSTER: this skill must be changed too. With 5 different charges I have a damage, often, between 1500 and 2000hp. I suggest to change it, making it less powerful: it could be something like "Charge Booster, increase the magnitude of the first 2 different charges used". In this way, the max number of charges on the target would be decrease to 7 from 10.

    -ANNIHILATION BOMB: would be okay to have a 1 second casting time.


    Hoping some suggestions may be useful.

  2. #2
    Telaran ennea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camu View Post

    - First, charge have to breake the effect of skills like incapacitate or roots ( With incapacitate I'm able to put: Time bomb, 5 different charges and detonate, without the target even moving. This usually leaves the target with 1\8 of life, or even less. Usually i kill them with 1 more charge).

    well mezzes break on dmg, charges dont do dmg, detonation does. If this change happens then charges should proc any kind of dmg buff that the normal dmging abilities do, like poisons, fiery blades or even procs from planar essences etc , when you apply the charges.

    - COMBAT SURVIVAL: this skill must be changed. Only 2 points for a 50% time reduction on snares and stuns is way too much. I suggest to turn it into a 5 point skill (each point giving 10% time reduction).

    why 5? too much, perhaps 3 at most

    -CHARGE BOOSTER: this skill must be changed too. With 5 different charges I have a damage, often, between 1500 and 2000hp. I suggest to change it, making it less powerful: it could be something like "Charge Booster, increase the magnitude of the first 2 different charges used". In this way, the max number of charges on the target would be decrease to 7 from 10.

    agreed 10 charges in one detonation is too much imo

    -ANNIHILATION BOMB: would be okay to have a 1 second casting time.

    i would be ok with this , it really doesnt change much, although is a clear nerf to mobility.



    Hoping some suggestions may be useful.
    blah blah 10 chars/
    Last edited by ennea; 02-17-2011 at 05:57 AM.
    rogue for life

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    I am sorry but you are wrong. You forget we are squishy, take several seconds to set up our charges unless you take the 51 point talent and can be easily thwarted.

  4. #4
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by thespuds View Post
    I am sorry but you are wrong. You forget we are squishy, take several seconds to set up our charges unless you take the 51 point talent and can be easily thwarted.
    The we are squishy arguement is terriblle just sayin. 80% of the classes in the game are squishy.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Yeah, people ***** too much. Its not like we are doing this damage at the start of the fight. It takes about five seconds to place the charges to five unless they are cleansed off then it takes longer, then the persons not always dead after detonation so there is the chance they get healed up.

    We are also not able to take a lot of abuse either. We are glass cannons that takes skill to get done what we need to get done lol.
    Last edited by Xuros; 02-17-2011 at 06:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Actually this class appears to be badly in need of a buff at level 30+ from what a couple of guildmates have told me. In PvE they are forced to either kite or drink potions between fights because 1 equal level mob can beat them down so much.

    PvP side they are reporting lots of killing blows but they are getting out damaged easily by mages and warriors. So they excel at finishing off enemies which is a good thing and is needed but they aren't all powerful rulers of the BGs by any stretch of the imagination.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    The ones complaning about 'glass cannon' are liars. Or didn't play other souls either.

    Is the Sab weaker than other rogue dps souls? For sure it is not:

    you can easily use second souls like riftstalker or/and bard and have your hp and defences better than any other rogue, mostly because with Saboteur you don't need other souls to increase your damage, which is, basically, the highest spike dmg of the game.
    Few levels ago I had the same HP of a warrior.

    Other classes, like MM, need much more time to do the same damage and, in addiction, some skills take time to be cast, while with Sab you can spam your dmg with almost no rest.

    Why do you think in every warfront there are more Sabs than all the rest of rogues?
    Must be blinded, in order not to understand what's going on.

    For sure something need to be done with Sab's dmg. I bet that everyone saying they are not overpowered, want it to remain op, so they can play this auto-win soul ;)



    P.s. I remind you I'm playing Sab too, as 1st role.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Azath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuros View Post
    We are glass cannons that takes skill to get done what we need to get done lol.

    keep telling yourself that.... class is one of the easiest squishie classes to play... ever. concussion charges ftw!

    and yes an aoe heavy, ranged class is having a hard time grinding mobbs in PVE? off spec ranger? PVE grind with another soul combo? Just because someone's buddy is dying to trash mobs doesn't mean the soul is broken.


    newsflash - sab's do have things other than charges.. just thought some people may have missed that..

    I ran around with sab for a couple hours as well and i cant really say that people cleansing charges was a big issue.. conc charge3-4 times, timebomb, detonate, 5 different charges, detonate most people are pretty much toast after that.

    i dont know if it needs to be tweaked- its hard to say until people are level 50 what souls will be dominate... Generally, once people hit level cap and start wearing gear sets etc i would think that there will be more defensive stats (and leftover soul points to spend) on survivability. General gear as people level doesnt really offer any significant boost to survivability. But as it stands please the sab is a fairly easy class to pick up and play passably well.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brugdor View Post
    Actually this class appears to be badly in need of a buff at level 30+ from what a couple of guildmates have told me. In PvE they are forced to either kite or drink potions between fights because 1 equal level mob can beat them down so much.

    PvP side they are reporting lots of killing blows but they are getting out damaged easily by mages and warriors. So they excel at finishing off enemies which is a good thing and is needed but they aren't all powerful rulers of the BGs by any stretch of the imagination.
    It is a lie. You don't have to compare Sab's to warriors, but to other rogues' souls.

    For example, today, was fighting mob lvl 42 (while I was 39) of a hard quest. With SIN/NB and MM/R I was dead almost every, single, time.


    With Sab...
    Easy: Incapacitate - Time bomb - 5 charges - AoE snare.
    Detonate (and the target starts to move, going out of incapacitate).
    5 more charges.
    Stun and go on with the Stun charge and the AoE Snare all the time you want...


    I was able to kill, alone, Elites of same lvl without being touched. If the mobs are not elite, they die the 2nd time u put your charges, so you dont even need stuns or whatever.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by camu View Post
    It is a lie.
    Yes because my guildmates have some reason to lie to me about it.

    How about the possibility that they aren't as high a level as you yet and haven't put the skill points into the tree to get some of the same improvements that you have? Or perhaps they have different soul combos that aren't working out as well for them?

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Telal's Avatar
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    I had played every rogue soul but sab until today, and i do not have a lot of exp with it, but man, those are some huge numbers at level 25 (in pvp), criting detonate + crit blast charge for 1800 damage? :P

    Insane

    The only thing, I think, that keeps sabs from being FoTM is it's the lest fun of the combat mechanics, to me, though the traps are nice.

    It's a neat class, how bad they are smashed by the nerfhammer will depend on how many sabs kill a +4 level tank in 6 seconds lol
    Therylin - R5 Healer
    Thericia- R4 Rogue

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brugdor View Post
    Actually this class appears to be badly in need of a buff at level 30+ from what a couple of guildmates have told me. In PvE they are forced to either kite or drink potions between fights because 1 equal level mob can beat them down so much.


    They are doing something wrong. You should be able to kill 2-3 mobs with out getting hit. At least from 30-36 I know this is the case.

    Sap, snare trap, 31point sab talent, silent set up, and even ranger for pet off tank. A mob equal lvl should be around 50% when you pull it. Time bomb and 5 charges before aggroing the mob...

  13. #13
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    Wonderful, another sab comes forward with reasonable change suggestions, pointing out what is too good and why, and other sabs go nuts.. They are not glass cannons, they get way more hp/armor than any mage class, 42 sab easily pass 4000hp, while mage gets maybe 3000? Nm. im just happy i know the class is going to be nerfed, no matter how many... soul crushing despair inducing people defend the sab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDain View Post
    Wonderful, another sab comes forward with reasonable change suggestions, pointing out what is too good and why, and other sabs go nuts.. They are not glass cannons, they get way more hp/armor than any mage class, 42 sab easily pass 4000hp, while mage gets maybe 3000? Nm. im just happy i know the class is going to be nerfed, no matter how many... soul crushing despair inducing people defend the sab.
    People are stupid scared of the spike damage, apparently, because Sab's are completely fine (at least in the 1-35 bracket, I have no experience beyond this). They're just as good as any other DPS class if ignored (Which would be stupid), and less effective generally when CC'd. People are crying because sab damage comes rarely, in big chunks, its something most MMO's dont have and most players dont intrinsically know how to counter. Dropping multiple types of charges on a target REALLY ups our chances of seeing at least 1 crit per detonate which makes the damage seem brutal, and our damage isnt easily countered by your standard **** healer. The class takes more skill and timing to play effectively then other classes, and it requires a different strategy to defeat - Learn it and stop *****ing.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ennea View Post
    blah blah 10 chars/
    QTF

    even the devs know sabs are fine and working as intended hence why they dont have any nerfs. get in a sabos face in melee and they die, they have 0 defense and leather!

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