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Thread: 51 Pt Riftstalker Tank spec?

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    Shadowlander Nagotoo's Avatar
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    Default 51 Pt Riftstalker Tank spec?

    I hope to be able to be a Riftstalker tank for leveling, and end game content. The spec i'm currently looking at is

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MpcV.EItIuqdRkkR.x.V

    My questions are, do the later Root abilites seem worth the? 10 sec prolonging of death, AoE taunt, Dmg immunity / debuff clear.

    If NOT: Where should i spend those points? Should i swap my other two souls (Bard / Bladedancer) To something else? They seemed like the best choices for 10% Hp, 5% Hit (Can't generate threat unless you hit it! :P) And Side Steps.

    Thoughts?
    Opnions?
    Ripping my spec apart?

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara Fasc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagotoo View Post
    I hope to be able to be a Riftstalker tank for leveling, and end game content. The spec i'm currently looking at is

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MpcV.EItIuqdRkkR.x.V

    My questions are, do the later Root abilites seem worth the? 10 sec prolonging of death, AoE taunt, Dmg immunity / debuff clear.

    If NOT: Where should i spend those points? Should i swap my other two souls (Bard / Bladedancer) To something else? They seemed like the best choices for 10% Hp, 5% Hit (Can't generate threat unless you hit it! :P) And Side Steps.

    Thoughts?
    Opnions?
    Ripping my spec apart?
    To specifically answer your question, yes the latter two skills are well worth it. An AoE Taunt is never a bad thing to have and being able to deliberately group up mobs right where you want is an amazing luxury. Damage immunity and debuff clearing has a whole host of uses and could be borderline OP, but since it is still there I'd take it in a heartbeat. Defer Death is more situationally useful and best used in conjunction with other CDs or well coordinated efforts from your group.

    Now more generally speaking, you should be going 51pt RS no matter what until we start getting better ideas of how our EH and Rift Guards hold up against tougher content. If you notice that with the improved talents now in the tree, additional points provide larger absorption (and damage reduction) as well as more Health. Most likely we will never deviate from a full 51 points in the Soul but I can see potential for some situations allowing heavier DPS/TPS setups from other Soul combinations. You're fairly locked into a 51pt RS build with a few points to toss around elsewhere.

    The good thing is that Ranger/Blade Dancer/Bard do not require a lot of points to get some goodies out of them. The bad thing is you have to choose between two of these and there is some thought as to how to do so right now. Personally I'm going 8 BD/7 Bard but that could change.

    Hope this helps.

    EDIT: Totally forgot to look at your spec. First you have 66 points (at least that's what the calculator maxes out at) to play with. Second, I would put points into +Dodge over anything TPS/DPS related, and then gain some bonuses with the free autoattacks on avoiding and the Reprisal skill. This opens up False Blade, a finisher that grants 5% Dodge which gives 8pts in BD a grand total of 10% undiminished Dodge, which is very very sexy. The two remaining points can go into Street Smart with Bard for the bonus Miss/Crit Miss chance, which is essentially Avoidance just from the other end.
    Last edited by Fasc; 02-15-2011 at 11:16 AM.

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    Shadowlander Nagotoo's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for your reply. Do you have any sugesstions for how to spec if I want to tank instances as I level? Are their certain talents I needed asap and others that I can put off?

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    Sword of Telara Fasc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagotoo View Post
    Thank you very much for your reply. Do you have any sugesstions for how to spec if I want to tank instances as I level? Are their certain talents I needed asap and others that I can put off?
    That I cannot recommend with any certainty but I would guess focus on RS nearly exclusively with BD/Bard in your pocket for the base skills and shoot up the tree until you finally nab Improved Guarded Steel and Improved Guardian Phase. Basically take anything and everything that improves Survivability like Armor, Endurance, etc.

    Once you're high enough to start backtracking, get some of the straight up damage increases next, like Unseen Fury and Relentless Stalker, and finally end with getting the utility skills and things that don't happen very often like Rift Scavenger. You'll eventually want all 51pts in the tree so once you're 40something deep, at that point just fill everything out and keep going.

    The only thing about this is that by yourself... you're going to be pretty piss poor DPS and killing things will likely be very agonizingly long, even with Stalker Phase. I'm not sure how soon you can get a secondary roll started but as soon as you can, especially if you plan on leveling via Tank jobs and instances, get a solid pure DPS build that is ideal for grinding and soloing. Something with a lot of oomph but has some good self healing or longevity. Early points in RS help nicely for Rift Scavenger but beyond that you're likely better off going into other Souls for that oomph.

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    Banned U₪ʭ҉ _Ħ's Avatar
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    Well this is how i did spec for "Tanking" PVE Instances.

    Around lvl 16:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MVp_..xI0hz0z
    Rift scavenger is a must for me, after all around lvl16 most "healers" don't work perfectly. Having up to 30% of your Health healed each time and add dies helps a lot.
    In a perfect world you wouldn't need it but later on you can keep yourself up through killing non elites during the instance. Basically the faster you can kill the better this skill gets, sometimes with certain setups you don't need a healer until the Boss fights at all.

    Around lvl 24:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MVpb.xok.xIthk0zo
    Rift Barrier got nerfed pretty hard with Beta 7. So for now it does not take priority. though it get's in handy later.
    I personally add my infiltrator soul during lower levels having a "free" anti CC skill comes in handy (Yes Bosses do that nasty fear / stun stuff) Shadow Stalk can't remove fear ;)

    Around lvl30:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MVpb.xbd.xIthu0zozoM

    Having an AOE Finisher from BD comes in really__ handy with your two other riftstalker AOE attacks. Reprisal and strike back really do help a lot with DPS and combo-building for "zero costs" while tanking.


    Truth to be told, it's beyond ridiculous easy to hold aggro in this game right now. And you don't need every last drop of defense in order to survive the first instances. Most of the time i felt a bit of overkill for the encounters. Feel free to shift a few points into some damage specs of the riftstalker and BD.
    Last edited by U₪ʭ҉ _Ħ; 02-16-2011 at 03:36 AM.

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    Shadowlander Nagotoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasc View Post
    The only thing about this is that by yourself... you're going to be pretty piss poor DPS and killing things will likely be very agonizingly long, even with Stalker Phase. I'm not sure how soon you can get a secondary roll started but as soon as you can, especially if you plan on leveling via Tank jobs and instances, get a solid pure DPS build that is ideal for grinding and soloing. Something with a lot of oomph but has some good self healing or longevity. Early points in RS help nicely for Rift Scavenger but beyond that you're likely better off going into other Souls for that oomph.
    I'll be leveling as Bladedancer or Nightblade so thats not a big deal You can get your 2nd role for almost no money at the start.

    U₪ʭ҉ _Ħ
    Well this is how i did spec for "Tanking" PVE Instances.

    Around lvl 16:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MVp_..xI0hz0z
    Rift scavenger is a must for me, after all around lvl16 most "healers" don't work perfectly. Having up to 30% of your Health healed each time and add dies helps a lot.
    In a perfect world you wouldn't need it but later on you can keep yourself up through killing non elites during the instance. Basically the faster you can kill the better this skill gets, sometimes with certain setups you don't need a healer until the Boss fights at all.

    Around lvl 24:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MVpb.xok.xIthk0zo
    Rift Barrier got nerfed pretty hard with Beta 7. So for now it does not take priority. though it get's in handy later.
    I personally add my infiltrator soul during lower levels having a "free" anti CC skill comes in handy (Yes Bosses do that nasty fear / stun stuff) Shadow Stalk can't remove fear ;)

    Around lvl30:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MVpb.xbd.xIthu0zozoM

    Having an AOE Finisher from BD comes in really__ handy with your two other riftstalker AOE attacks. Reprisal and strike back really do help a lot with DPS and combo-building for "zero costs" while tanking.


    Truth to be told, it's beyond ridiculous easy to hold aggro in this game right now. And you don't need every last drop of defense in order to survive the first instances. Most of the time i felt a bit of overkill for the encounters. Feel free to shift a few points into some damage specs of the riftstalker and BD.
    Thank you very much for the different specs, i'll be sure to test them this beta and see how the work out!


  7. #7
    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    See Sig

    maximum mitigation.

    Going ranger you get 11.2% more damage mitigation from everything

    going blade dancer you get around 18% more mitigation from melee attacks only (this is assuming base dodge from nothing but dex stat is around 15% with good endgame gear, it will probably be more around 10 most of the time

    crit instead of the minor hp buff because it feels like you get less out of the points spent. particularly when you consider in a raid situation you will probably have a ~45-50% crit rate 2/3rds of the time. (dex, bard buff, assassin debuff, 15% from teleporting

    oh, and you can pull with splinter shot -> candence and have 5 combo points in the first 2 seconds of combat.

    considering the teleport shields are weaker now this is probably the best way to open, you should be able to get a rift guard up before anything can hit you.
    Last edited by Vabjekf; 02-18-2011 at 06:41 AM.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    I adjusted the tank spec you had by simply removing a couple talents that don't work for the tanking. It is basically your spec minus the Rift Barrier and improved Rift Barrier(talents designed for a dps build, since they do not stack with Rift Guard). You should have Rift Guard up just about all the time. As such, Rift Barrier seems useless. The things I did other than that were adding the following:

    1. Street Smart: Reduces enemies chance to hit you and critically hit you by 3%(3/3)
    2. Quick Reflexes: Increases your dodge chance by 5%(5/5)

    I also dropped one point out of Unseen Fury. You don't need the full compliment of Attack Power for this build. I think the extra 1% of dodge is better.

  9. #9
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    Thanks to the recent changes 51 point rs builds are now the flavor of the moment. Truth is no one knows what specs will perform like at endgame. Keep in mind that you can still get more endurance and more shielding than before even with a split spec.

    Bladedancer not only adds dodge and parry. It also features a nice dps boost much of which is passive. Other abilities such as silence, disarm, stuns are very useful for any tank.

    Bard adds tons of utility and healing nice for any spec really.

    Nightblade adds in quite a bit of dps and has a nice oh **** button sitting at 18.

    Hell, I have been considering a sabo/rs combo tank. Might be fun to have a tank that can make things blow up.

    Right now a 51 rs spec is the new and shiny. But lets face it, if you never get below 75 percent health in any fight it may be time to weaken the defenses and get some more punch.

    (Right now I intend to go 51 points in rs as well. My advice is to keep an open mind and still try out some split specs.)

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    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyveth View Post
    Right now a 51 rs spec is the new and shiny. But lets face it, if you never get below 75 percent health in any fight it may be time to weaken the defenses and get some more punch.
    No then its time to brag about being awesome

    The 51 point tallent is very good for a tank. Previously it was not worth getting because you basically got all the tanking stuff you needed at 21 points of rift stalker.

    The extra 30 points was not worth it.

    However if you start with the assumption that 'more points' is now always some sort of bonus, and rift stalker becomes where you place all your extra points to get more mitigation.. and you end up with a build that has 30something rift stalker.. suddenly that 51 point is closer, and its not just the 51 point, its the 51 point and taking a noticable amount of damage less per hit than before.

    Honestly any other build is just stubborn people not wanting to go 51 points.

    Some souls just ask to be taken 51 points.

    Do you know who can go less than 51 rift stalker? Someone wanting it for their MDPS rogue who would like better mobility and maybe a slightly damage shield/crit chance after teleporting.

    They can go less than 51 points. See, the soul is still diverse, its still capable of being flexible, its just that for a certain purpose you want to spec it a certain way. Much like a full support bard wants to spec 51 bard, but before the rift stalker change there were people who had riftstalker tank builds with 20 some odd points into bard.

    Im not for all or nothing souls, but i dont see a problem with maxing a soul being the best thing to do for some situations, i mean.. the souls can have 51 points. If a rogue would not want to max its tanking soul if it was making a hardcore tank build.. then who would ever want to max it? Souls shouldn't require maxing, but they should have situations where they get maxed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vabjekf View Post
    No then its time to brag about being awesome

    The 51 point tallent is very good for a tank. Previously it was not worth getting because you basically got all the tanking stuff you needed at 21 points of rift stalker.

    The extra 30 points was not worth it.

    However if you start with the assumption that 'more points' is now always some sort of bonus, and rift stalker becomes where you place all your extra points to get more mitigation.. and you end up with a build that has 30something rift stalker.. suddenly that 51 point is closer, and its not just the 51 point, its the 51 point and taking a noticable amount of damage less per hit than before.

    Honestly any other build is just stubborn people not wanting to go 51 points.

    Some souls just ask to be taken 51 points.

    Do you know who can go less than 51 rift stalker? Someone wanting it for their MDPS rogue who would like better mobility and maybe a slightly damage shield/crit chance after teleporting.

    They can go less than 51 points. See, the soul is still diverse, its still capable of being flexible, its just that for a certain purpose you want to spec it a certain way. Much like a full support bard wants to spec 51 bard, but before the rift stalker change there were people who had riftstalker tank builds with 20 some odd points into bard.

    Im not for all or nothing souls, but i dont see a problem with maxing a soul being the best thing to do for some situations, i mean.. the souls can have 51 points. If a rogue would not want to max its tanking soul if it was making a hardcore tank build.. then who would ever want to max it? Souls shouldn't require maxing, but they should have situations where they get maxed.
    Completely agree outside ONE point. I want to have options to spec out of RS, but i cant. Forcing mindless 51 points in RS with zero choices inside the tree (you have to get EVERY talent) is bad design. Everything else has tons of options, everything but rogue tanking. which feels very dull spec wise right now.
    51 Rs was not viable in beta 6, now it is the ONLY viable build, that is bad change.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched RageHulkSmash's Avatar
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    This is the more common, cookie-cutter tank spec. http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...IuqdRkkR.xb.xh

    Hp is the most important stat for riftstalkers so the 5% dodge from BD isn't that great compared to 5% hp form ranger. Plus you get another 6% damage reduction with it.

    Bard + ranger give +15% hp on top of the 75% increased endurance riftstalkers provide, which makes each point of endurance from gear give roughly 18.1 hp vs. the 9 hp you normally get from it. Also, rift guard will absorb more damage with more hp. Riftstalkers are designed to utilize a lot of hp very well.
    Last edited by RageHulkSmash; 02-18-2011 at 01:03 PM.

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    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathfairy View Post
    Completely agree outside ONE point. I want to have options to spec out of RS, but i cant. Forcing mindless 51 points in RS with zero choices inside the tree (you have to get EVERY talent) is bad design. Everything else has tons of options, everything but rogue tanking. which feels very dull spec wise right now.
    51 Rs was not viable in beta 6, now it is the ONLY viable build, that is bad change.

    Define viable exactly? Its not like a few % less mitigation will drastically change things. Its a numbers game, one build is always going to be the best build. You would prefer if some arbitrary number was better than 'max'?

    What we have here is just a situation where the best build is more obvious.

    Is it a shame the best build is obvious? you could argue that, but arguing against there being a 'best build' is silly because there is always going to be a best build.

    EDIT:

    I still think that 5% hitpoint from ranger is a bad idea. You are getting a low point return since its a split talent that is not helping you, we see that a regular hitpoint boosting talent is supposed to be 1 point = 2%. 1 for 1% is bleh.

    Crit on the other hand, 1 point for 1% is pretty much what its 'worth'. You get more return on your points spent.
    Last edited by Vabjekf; 02-18-2011 at 01:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vabjekf View Post
    Define viable exactly? Its not like a few % less mitigation will drastically change things. Its a numbers game, one build is always going to be the best build. You would prefer if some arbitrary number was better than 'max'?

    What we have here is just a situation where the best build is more obvious.

    Is it a shame the best build is obvious? you could argue that, but arguing against there being a 'best build' is silly because there is always going to be a best build.

    EDIT:

    I still think that 5% hitpoint from ranger is a bad idea. You are getting a low point return since its a split talent that is not helping you, we see that a regular hitpoint boosting talent is supposed to be 1 point = 2%. 1 for 1% is bleh.

    Crit on the other hand, 1 point for 1% is pretty much what its 'worth'. You get more return on your points spent.

    As i showed already it is not few % more it is ALOT more like 20% hp. It really depends on what your comparing. This is not acceptable difference. 2-3 % DR/avoidance/ ~5% hp is acceptable difference. 13% Dr vs 18% avoidance is acceptable trade of sure one will be batter then the other in some cases, maybe even in most, but it is a trade of. Loosing 20% hp is too harsh, they need to minimize this difference.


    5% hp in ranger is not as bad as it sounds because it is HP not endurance. So you would get 5% of your base HP, which might be substantial at least early on. no idea what the break down is between total hp and hp from endurance. But 6% DR in ranger is what is amazing even if 5% hp does not end up that good per point.
    Last edited by Deathfairy; 02-18-2011 at 01:51 PM.

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    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    its actually less than a 5% bonus over what you would have since, again, its all additive. difference between 110% and 115% =P

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