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Thread: Catskillz "Chimera Project" A Sab/Sin World PvP toon

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    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Default Catskillz "Chimera Project" A Sab/Sin World PvP toon

    Build version (Beta 7): 1.00.1
    Chimera Project

    Change Log:

    1.00.1:
    Build re-done. Removed Assassination, added in Blade Dancer & Night Blade.

    1.00.0:
    Build added to forums


    Tips:
    - Professions: Rune Crafter & Alchemist

    - For detonation of charges, always change your weapon to the higher max damage weapon (in most cases, ranged weapon). The default button for this is Z.
    Last edited by Catskills; 02-15-2011 at 03:33 AM.
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    Telaran Askalskade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catskills View Post
    Often when we discuss of saboteurs, we design them as ranged combatants for effective group PvP.

    However, if we are discussing of world PvP, there's no reason why Saboteur shouldn't participate in the disabling process, now, due to the recent changes, Saboteur's need to make sure their opponents don't land a single dispel on themselves before being capable of hitting detonate to its full power. Instead of putting any emphasis on Sin's own damaging skills, I used a build that supports Saboteur's skills as the character's primary functions. Emphasis is also placed on self-healing through Enduring brew (Which also works as a self-dot, effective incapacitate & root counter) and healing procs.

    She's pretty much what most Sab's are going for now, however, I decided not to include NB (at the cost of 15% charge damage though) for more survivability. Primary damage source is Saboteur, secondary damage source are bleeds. So she isn't the exact cookie cutter either.

    Understanding the play style on her is another thing. As it comes to obvious remark that at least during the initiation process, the rogue needs to place himself on the melee range (at least to incapacitate). But that's the fun part of it, no one expects a saboteur running right next to them. Also blinding powder & incapacitate give the possibility of attaching 5 charges with ease. Selection of target is the primary challenge, as you don't want to face anything that puts you to disadvantage, hence the improved stealth. This of course equals that this build is gimped on Warfronts, and there are better Saboteur builds for that.

    I'll be running this build with my friend, and it synergies quite well with his spec.

    Build version (Beta 7): 1.00.0
    Chimera Project

    Change Log:

    1.00.0:
    Build added to forums


    Tips:

    - For detonation of charges, always change your weapon to the higher max damage weapon (in most cases, ranged weapon). The default button for this is Z.
    I've been planning on rolling this exact same spec as one of my roles for awhile.

    As a nerd with no time I have quite a few saved roles and the pros of this one are quite good, what I think it will fail on is fighting healers in a 1v1 environment. Bleeds are going to screw with your blinds hard, and you dont have improved spike charge (I don't either on this spec, its literally exactly the same so i'm mostly just voicing my own fears here) Its a toss up for whether you really want that bleed. On top of this you don't have rapid setup, which is a hefty amount of burst that in my mind Saboteur is going to need to take down tanky healers.

    On the plus side its going to go toe to toe with other ranged souls very nicely with brew healing and all its other tools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askalskade View Post
    I've been planning on rolling this exact same spec as one of my roles for awhile.

    As a nerd with no time I have quite a few saved roles and the pros of this one are quite good, what I think it will fail on is fighting healers in a 1v1 environment. Bleeds are going to screw with your blinds hard, and you dont have improved spike charge (I don't either on this spec, its literally exactly the same so i'm mostly just voicing my own fears here) Its a toss up for whether you really want that bleed. On top of this you don't have rapid setup, which is a hefty amount of burst that in my mind Saboteur is going to need to take down tanky healers.

    On the plus side its going to go toe to toe with other ranged souls very nicely with brew healing and all its other tools.
    Self-healing tanky clerics are indeed going to be the bane of this character. It needs to be tested if you can down one with two bursts of 5x charges, because that is the maximum duration I can see a cleric being in complete lock down. But if there's anyone with that cleric, I'd say there's no point even trying to get them.
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    Telaran Askalskade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catskills View Post
    Self-healing tanky clerics are indeed going to be the bane of this character. It needs to be tested if you can down one with two bursts of 5x charges, because that is the maximum duration I can see a cleric being in complete lock down. But if there's anyone with that cleric, I'd say there's no point even trying to get them.
    Its not just clerics.

    Archmage/Dom or Archmage/Chloro (or arch/chloro/dom... though I don't see that ever actually killing you, just tanking forever) should be able to /lol off all your damage for a good long while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askalskade View Post
    Its not just clerics.

    Archmage/Dom or Archmage/Chloro (or arch/chloro/dom... though I don't see that ever actually killing you, just tanking forever) should be able to /lol off all your damage for a good long while.
    From my experience of ~30 level PvP. You can just stamp a big "**** you" on forehead of any unsuspecting mage class. Though that is due to not many actually possessing Archmage with any point investments currently.

    Those are going to be long, tire-some fights indeed. Cannot say which one will win, but as this build always has the option of initiating or not. Waiting for the correct moment will most likely result in a victory. (even if it requires minutes of tiring down the opponent).
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    Telaran Askalskade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catskills View Post
    From my experience of ~30 level PvP. You can just stamp a big "**** you" on forehead of any unsuspecting mage class. Though that is due to not many actually possessing Archmage with any point investments currently.

    Those are going to be long, tire-some fights indeed. Cannot say which one will win, but as this build always has the option of initiating or not. Waiting for the correct moment will most likely result in a victory. (even if it requires minutes of tiring down the opponent).
    True enough, and yeah the mage issue is mainly just lacking deep archmage and later tiers of gear for more scaling.

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    so you're giving your simple soulbuids a CODENAME and then versioning it - 1.0.0, then 1.0.1, labeling as alpha, beta, even writing a changelog?

    lol thats so cute, kid. :3

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    Telaran Askalskade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviltry View Post
    so you're giving your simple soulbuids a CODENAME and then versioning it - 1.0.0, then 1.0.1, labeling as alpha, beta, even writing a changelog?

    lol thats so cute, kid. :3
    Why so negative, kid.

    I personally keep track of each iteration of build I make, and i'm currently almost to 30 different builds for different purposes, each with several iterations.

    I don't codename because i'm uncreative and happy enough with just saying Soul/Soul ##/##/##

    Calling it the chimera project is apt if you are posting it for feedback with other theory crafters with like ideas.

    Just to spite your negativity, i'm going to go into all my iterations of Sab/Sin hybrids and name rename them Chimera Project.

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    Champion Catskills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviltry View Post
    so you're giving your simple soulbuids a CODENAME and then versioning it - 1.0.0, then 1.0.1, labeling as alpha, beta, even writing a changelog?

    lol thats so cute, kid. :3
    Don't make me take the fastest Speed cat to Estonia.

    And old habbits die hard, I must say, after Shadowbane I've always posted one "Chimera Project" (As I use different nicknames, I like to give people hints of my whereabouts) build to any MMORPG's forum. And its labeled as "Beta 7" due to the game being at the stage of beta 7. In addition it has been a custom to some PvP'ers to post their builds, just for show-off and to help the other, newer players with their trade. Why did you completely ignore the tips section?

    The version name & change log are there for personal tracking mostly, due to my horrible memory.

    And yeah, it should be cute, cause I'm so freaking fluffy.
    Last edited by Catskills; 02-14-2011 at 01:06 AM.
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    When you understand the true utility and synergy, you'll thank me later.


    It's gone, never to be mentioned again...
    Last edited by blahdot3h; 02-14-2011 at 08:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blahdot3h View Post
    I'm only going to post this for you kids once since I'm in a drunk and giving mood.


    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...V0toGogo.0AMbz


    When you understand the true utility and synergy, you'll thank me later.


    It's gone, never to be mentioned again...

    There is an even better build, but that one is a secret.
    Thought about Sab/NB myself, but if you're actually going to do what I think you are, fighting from range with 20m NB & sab skills, then range increase of charges is pointless waste of 5 points.

    And the better build, let me guess: 27/32/7

    If there weren't insane diminishing returns, I'd go for NB just to incapacitate- > apply charges, time bomb, annihilation bomb and finisher -> incapacitate again and keep the circle continued.

    All psychical attack increases are basically waste of points for Saboteur as well these days. (Charges are classified as "poison")

    The difference between the two is that Sin Sab can focus on saboteur skills, and NB sab needs to throw in the required skills for damage boosts. And its not yet confirmed if all the points that should synergies actually do (NB's 15% to combo points was only added in beta 6 for sabo charges, for example).
    Sin sab's secondary source of damage are DoT's, Nb Sab's secondary damage source are finishers / skills. (Which take time from applying new charges)

    In addition, Sin has the self heal. Sab has longer range disables, but there's only 1 skill to efficiently prevent casting, which is a single-target spell, therefore reflect able by most characters who you really need to silence.

    So I'll spare the compliments.
    Last edited by Catskills; 02-14-2011 at 02:32 AM.
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    the 3 points in poison mastery are a waste of points imo, in the last beta I didn't see any lethal poison proc. Anyway 10% more dmg with Cruel vengeance is better imo.
    Also the silence bomb works exacly like our adhesive bomb, only if the target stay in the aoe. Don't worth 38 points to get it for a 1s silence .

    And why are you using so many points in the saboteur soul? Even 5 blast charges+anni +detonate won't worth anymore, with all the passives to increase the charge dmgs 5 different charges gonna do a lot more dmg (charge booster 2x more dmg and 2x passives too ^^ )

    sab/sin/night
    15% with blazing fury
    9% with untable state
    15% with poison potency
    15% with increased explosive power
    ---------------------------------------------

    with charge booster 10 charges with 54% more base dmg

    with dark malady (20% more dmg) it's 74%

    with Cruel Vengeance (10% more dmg after critical) it's 84% more dmg per charge

    Also 40% detonate dmg boost with Improved detonate and coup de grace

    I'm not using improved stealth because in groups it's almost useless.

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    Rift Disciple Lokanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviltry View Post
    so you're giving your simple soulbuids a CODENAME and then versioning it - 1.0.0, then 1.0.1, labeling as alpha, beta, even writing a changelog?

    lol thats so cute, kid. :3
    Same is true for your name "Deviltry"... With as much trolling as you do "trying to be a devil" you're just insulting yourself in the same breath. How cute!

    But on to my point. Out in the world you have MUCH less worry about dispels. The element of surprise is your biggest advantage, so any cleansing classes will be scrambling and dispels won't be the first thing on their mind. Not to mention you can open with stun charges to give you the time you need. Parading as a Sabo in the past beta's, I found countless victims who didn't even know that I was applying charges until they blew up. So if you're worried you can open with stun charges, detonate, then apply more damaging charges during the stun for another big surprise.

    All this hype over dispels and people think the sky is falling. Looks good on paper, but practical application will yield very different results. Also, you don't have to go assassin to yield more out of Sabo, it's just the first thing people saw in the patch notes so everyone is looking that direction. I can wave my empty hand above my head to distract you all I want, but there are daggers hiding behind the back of other specs as well if you know where to look!
    Last edited by Lokanu; 02-14-2011 at 04:29 AM. Reason: Grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisheer View Post
    the 3 points in poison mastery are a waste of points imo, in the last beta I didn't see any lethal poison proc. Anyway 10% more dmg with Cruel vengeance is better imo.
    Also the silence bomb works exacly like our adhesive bomb, only if the target stay in the aoe. Don't worth 38 points to get it for a 1s silence .

    And why are you using so many points in the saboteur soul? Even 5 blast charges+anni +detonate won't worth anymore, with all the passives to increase the charge dmgs 5 different charges gonna do a lot more dmg (charge booster 2x more dmg and 2x passives too ^^ )

    sab/sin/night
    15% with blazing fury
    9% with untable state
    15% with poison potency
    15% with increased explosive power
    ---------------------------------------------

    with charge booster 10 charges with 54% more base dmg

    with dark malady (20% more dmg) it's 74%

    with Cruel Vengeance (10% more dmg after critical) it's 84% more dmg per charge

    Also 40% detonate dmg boost with Improved detonate and coup de grace

    I'm not using improved stealth because in groups it's almost useless.
    From my tests, stacking 1-1-1-1-1 in different charge types dealt inferior damage to 5x blast charges. Simply due to damage migtations on the other side (enemies tend to have high elemental resistances and armor)

    But I put in the blast charge armor ignore due to the fact that there will be some new talent replacing it, can't wait to see what it is.

    Carpet bombing gives the chance to keep throwing that silence bomb, efficient cast disabler. Carpet bombing can also be used in spamming time bomb & annihilation bombs.

    The poison change only applies to Blast & Shrapnel charges. And I am not using lethal poison, I am using leeching poison.

    And I'd certainly get Cloak & Dagger over Cruel Vengeance. 15% damage boost after stun / jagged strike > 10% after crit.

    Its still not confirmed if for example Unstable state actually increases the damage of charges or not. We all take them for granted, but for example Blazing Fury started to be counted in after beta 6 had started.
    Play to Crush.

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    Rift Disciple Lokanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catskills View Post
    From my tests, stacking 1-1-1-1-1 in different charge types dealt inferior damage to 5x blast charges. Simply due to damage migtations on the other side (enemies tend to have high elemental resistances and armor)

    But I put in the blast charge armor ignore due to the fact that there will be some new talent replacing it, can't wait to see what it is.

    Carpet bombing gives the chance to keep throwing that silence bomb, efficient cast disabler. Carpet bombing can also be used in spamming time bomb & annihilation bombs.

    The poison change only applies to Blast & Shrapnel charges. And I am not using lethal poison, I am using leeching poison.

    And I'd certainly get Cloak & Dagger over Cruel Vengeance. 15% damage boost after stun / jagged strike > 10% after crit.

    Its still not confirmed if for example Unstable state actually increases the damage of charges or not. We all take them for granted, but for example Blazing Fury started to be counted in after beta 6 had started.
    The reason people advise going with 1-1-1-1-1 is due to Charge Booster which adds an effect to each different charge. Thus a 1-1-1-1-1 would equate to a 2-2-2-2-2 of the same charges, yielding a total of 10 effects per detonate. If you went with 5 blasting charges it would only count as 6. Now, it's a bit of a catch 22 because if you do go with 5 different charges, you knowingly sacrifice your heftier damage charges for some lesser ones, so it's not entirely bad to go with a happy medium of 2-2-1 which comes to a 3-3-2 end result of 8 charges. It's all personal preference in the end. In PvE I stacked 5 ember charges first to increase the following damage by 12% (from 5+1 charges) for 30s. Then I'd follow up with 5 spike, then a cocktail of Shrapnel/Caltrop/Splinter/Blast (x2) until the boss died. On trash I'd usually go for AoE damage or the cocktail I mentioned prior using 2 Shrapnel instead of 2 Blast.

    The poison change refers to all charges, not just Blast and Shrapnel. All pre-blown charges show up as debuffs, even in past betas. Carpet Bombing also I didn't find much use for DPS. Detonating charges yielded more dps and I only found use for bombs as a utility, anything else would mean I'm not making the most of my detonate and Charge Booster. I could however see Carpet Bombing used with Fragmentation Bomb on trash to maintain dps where you can't effectively detonate Shrapnel charges before mobs die.
    Last edited by Lokanu; 02-14-2011 at 05:11 AM. Reason: Grammar

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