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Thread: What makes assassin the 'meh...' rogue choice.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default What makes assassin the 'meh...' rogue choice.

    After looking over all rogue classes and weighing options, Assassin comes in last as a main class.
    Here are the main reasons why I think so, in order:

    -Playstyle begs for a -% healing poison or attack that they are currently lacking. Cannot stress this enough.
    -Currently the assassin's only 'main draw' is permanent stealth, stun, blind, slip away and poisons. All of which are easily cherry picked and used by any other class. They have no root abilities or exclusives outstanding enough to take precedence over the benefits of other dps souls. Therefore, there isn't much incentive to do anything but dip in assassin for the utility perks.
    -They are one of two melee rogue souls limited entirely to melee with no outstanding benefits for doing so.
    -Positional attacks such as backstab and assassinate don't shine enough to define the class's mechanics. They're just "meh".

    Originally I didn't want anyone to get sidetracked with my own suggestions, but I did end up having a few thoughts on it:
    -Add a -% healing debuff assassin attack or poison.
    -Replace Hidden Veil with an ability that allows Assassinate, Jagged Strike and (maybe) Paralyzing strike to be use-able out of stealth for 5 seconds.
    -Add a 50%/100% chance to add an additional combo point with Advanced Flanking.
    -New talent: Your other assassin abilities have an x% chance of resetting the cooldown of your Puncture.
    -Make Poison Potency scale with points invested into the assassin tree.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-13-2011 at 01:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Master Tamanous's Avatar
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    Nothing meh about them.

    Check posts on leaks.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Already did. Arbitrary damage increases to poisons and bleeds which anyone can take, and two finishers.
    Not enough to redefine the 'meh' of the class.

    I should stress that most of the buffs still benefit anyone who never touches an assassin attack skill.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-12-2011 at 11:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    PvE soul sucks at PvP ...

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boduar View Post
    PvE soul sucks at PvP ...
    And yet so many of the talents are PvP oriented! That must not have been intentional at all.

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    With the recent patches, Assassin's are very good at DPS for PvE. They'll never be good in PvP, being a single target class. But with as often as they can land poison and bleed, and the benefits they can get from doing both, they do good DPS. They definitely don't qualify as a "glass cannon" since their damage stims from extremely fast low damage attacks, so they're more like a "glass uzi." Low damage, constant damage at high speeds, damn near constant bleed effect, increased damage and crit from those bleeds, and back stabs. While the back stabs normally aren't good enough to use as a main focus, combine those with the upgrades you get when you land bleed.

    Of course, this is mostly a soul used for boss damage in groups. Alone, none of it's skills flow the way they should, so that's something that needs some looking into.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathykins View Post
    With the recent patches, Assassin's are very good at DPS for PvE. They'll never be good in PvP, being a single target class.
    Saying assassins can't be good at PvP because they are single target makes no sense. Sab, MM, riftblade and VK are all primarily single target and among the most feared offensive roles. Also, warfronts are hardly the only form of PvP, to which I assume you must be referring.

    Honestly I think tweaks to positional damage (burst), a heal debuff, and some way to use their stealth attacks (only) out of stealth for a brief time could all positively influence the PvP ability of the class.
    Last edited by Mc05; 02-13-2011 at 12:11 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathykins View Post
    With the recent patches, Assassin's are very good at DPS for PvE. They'll never be good in PvP, being a single target class. But with as often as they can land poison and bleed, and the benefits they can get from doing both, they do good DPS. They definitely don't qualify as a "glass cannon" since their damage stims from extremely fast low damage attacks, so they're more like a "glass uzi." Low damage, constant damage at high speeds, damn near constant bleed effect, increased damage and crit from those bleeds, and back stabs. While the back stabs normally aren't good enough to use as a main focus, combine those with the upgrades you get when you land bleed.

    Of course, this is mostly a soul used for boss damage in groups. Alone, none of it's skills flow the way they should, so that's something that needs some looking into.
    only attack other melee rogues and maby crappy mages in pvp and stun lock players below 50% hp and the soul will do fine.
    Heck i would use it in world pvp to walk around to get the drop and players so i dont get the gank train on me the moment i cross the boarder but thats all i would use it for and maby later on i will just switch out the assasin soul for the pvp soul all depends.

    For pve i would probarly take enough pionts to get the crit dammage in the assasin tree or i might not im working on a new soulbuild probarly NB/sin/BD and if it works like i think it works it will make a main soul assasin spec useless and if it doesnt work i can always switch to ranged or become a tank the power of the rift soul system.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    Saying assassins can't be good at PvP because they are single target makes no sense. Sab, MM, riftblade and VK are all primarily single target and among the most feared offensive roles. Also, warfronts are hardly the only form of PvP, to which I assume you must be referring.

    Honestly I think tweaks to positional damage (burst), a heal debuff, and some way to use their stealth attacks (only) out of stealth for a brief time could all positively influence the PvP ability of the class.
    I was referring to warfronts. But I guess I didn't word that very well, I meant being solo target and being speed damage oriented. If they had high damage like the others, or even the defense, they could work very well. But they're more about quick low numbers than high numbers.

    But your ideas do sound good. As for being able to use stealth attacks out of stealth, I can't think of too many ways to do that that would make sense. Maybe the ability to teleport behind their target, which would unlock Assassinate for a second or so.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathykins View Post
    But your ideas do sound good. As for being able to use stealth attacks out of stealth, I can't think of too many ways to do that that would make sense. Maybe the ability to teleport behind their target, which would unlock Assassinate for a second or so.
    I know the "stealth out of stealth" thing is possible, because I have seen a similar ability in another game which I will not name. Basically removing the stealth restriction on stealth attacks (in this case assassin only attacks) for roughly five seconds. I'd probably leave proper positioning up to the player to achieve, just in order to not make things too easy. This all tends to get balanced out by the 50 energy cost of said stealth abilities.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    I think your most valid point is that assassinate and backstab are almost completely worthless.

    Personally I think if they increased both of those, preferably assassinate to be a % based attack something like 20-30% of targets max health. This would allow an assassin to open with paralize strike, then slip away later and possibly finish with a skill that uses a word that sounds like it would actually do damage worth doing. Backstab would also work well as a % based attack, less of course something like 2-5%. This change would help the fact that the game currently puts way to much % luck chance on assassin' being able to crit on their openers and finishers to be worth a ****.

    Also the 51 point poison should probably be moved to the 38 point skill (I previously suggested around 25 points) but have re-thought this in terms of balance and major class focus in assassin while not gimping the assassin out of infiltrator max build.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    my opinion of assassins is those backstab and assasinate skills should not be limited to use only when in stealth, should be able to use them in the open as well, just need to get behind the target, maybe have a bonus to the skill if done in stealth sort of thing

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrantorx View Post
    Also the 51 point poison should probably be moved to the 38 point skill (I previously suggested around 25 points) but have re-thought this in terms of balance and major class focus in assassin while not gimping the assassin out of infiltrator max build.
    I had a similar thought, where Hidden veil and Serpent Strike should be swapped, and Hidden Veil should be changed to an offensive combat stealth that lasted 5 seconds and would still allow the rogue to attack (similar to Nightblade's blackout, but more in line with a 51 root). However...I refrained from the suggestion because I figured too many people might overreact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axionz View Post
    my opinion of assassins is those backstab and assasinate skills should not be limited to use only when in stealth, should be able to use them in the open as well, just need to get behind the target, maybe have a bonus to the skill if done in stealth sort of thing
    Backstab can be used out of stealth, and if assassinate could be used out of stealth, there wouldn't be much reason to backstab. That is why I suggest an added bonus to Advanced Flanking. Position-based attacks aren't worth it right now. I think my suggestions for the Advanced Flanking would definitely change that.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mc05 View Post
    Backstab can be used out of stealth, and if assassinate could be used out of stealth, there wouldn't be much reason to backstab. That is why I suggest an added bonus to Advanced Flanking. Position-based attacks aren't worth it right now. I think my suggestions for the Advanced Flanking would definitely change that.
    ah my bad i havent played assassin up much in beta, guess i misread i thought it was another skill that couldnt be used out of stealth. but i do like your suggestion

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