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Thread: Why melee rogues are broken

  1. #1
    Telaran Scayth's Avatar
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    Default Why melee rogues are broken

    The simple answer: The nerfing of melee critical damage from 200% to 150%.

    The explanation:

    First of all, let's talk about why, before the nerf, melee/ranged crit damage was 200% and spell crit damage was only 150%. Spells do not take the damage reduction from armor into account. They are only affected by magic resists. This is called "balance."

    Now, before the nerf, melee rogues seemed weak, because we compared ourselves to mostly Marksman and Sab's and the OP high crits they were getting. (and possibly warriors with 2 handers, haven't looked into that much) We weren't really that weak, we just appeared so when compared to other somewhat OP skills in other souls.

    Now, instead of taking the time to tweak those OP skills down and balance them individually, Trion decided to go with this sweeping heavy-handed nerf. Post-nerf, the OP skills are no longer OP, but melee rogues have suffered from collateral damage.

    Summary: Trion needs to either roll back the nerf, or tweak melee rogues skill damage upward to compensate.

    Additionally, what worries me is that even though Trion has stated that they are primarily focused on PVE soul balance, this feels way too much like a PVP focused nerf. One that negatively affected PVE, which I could swear is something they claimed they were going to try to avoid.

  2. #2
    Telaran Scayth's Avatar
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    Nevermind. Looks like Trion has decided to nerf MM and Sab down to where melee is at, instead of boosting melee.

    From where I'm standing, it appears that Rift is going to be yet another game where rogues get the short end of the stick. Oh well, at least we can still tank and offheal.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker
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    I never quite found assassins weak. Their ability to stun and completely CC enemies, not to mention attack from stealth, justifies the lowered DPS rating they have.

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    Telaran Scayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinasdf View Post
    I never quite found assassins weak. Their ability to stun and completely CC enemies, not to mention attack from stealth, justifies the lowered DPS rating they have.
    Lol? We already trade heavy armor and high hp for that. The whole point of a melee rogue is higher dps with lower survivability.

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    Ascendant Indasoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scayth View Post
    Nevermind. Looks like Trion has decided to nerf MM and Sab down to where melee is at...
    Err, did I miss something?

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    I am quite happy with how rogues are right now, maybe you are building wrong or something?

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    Telaran Scayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indasoth View Post
    Err, did I miss something?
    Yes. The latest leaked patch notes. Or something.

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    Telaran Scayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grondly View Post
    I am quite happy with how rogues are right now, maybe you are building wrong or something?
    Yes, you're absolutely right, I (and all the other melee rogues who think our dps is subpar) am just building wrong. Can we kill things fine in PVE? Yes! Are we balanced with warrior melee dps, or ranged rogue dps? No! I'm talking about balance, not pure viability, geezus.

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    People need to just realize that assassin is pretty much a terrible spec for PvP melee rogue. Go something like bladedancer/riftstalker/nightblade and pickup amazing survivability, decent dps with tons of utility/disables, and good mobility/range. Assassin is GOOD for group/raid PvE probably but not every soul is meant to be WTF LEET BBQ SAUCE for both PvE and PvP. Make good decisions about which souls you choose depending on whether you want to be good solo pve, good group pve, good at pvp, or a mix. I mean just think about at max level melee rogues can very possibly jump on a healer with a 5 sec silence opener from up to 20m range and do 2 healing debuffs that probably stack (ends up being -75% heals if healer is self healing) along with another 5 sec silence if you use it right and maybe throw in another 4 sec stun ontop of pretty ridiculous dmg depending if you blow a dps cooldown (found in bladedancer or nightblade trees).
    Last edited by Boduar; 02-11-2011 at 04:59 PM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Warrior DPS is higher, but rogue DPS is well above mage DPS. The nerf to sab and MM was more than likely necessary, because buffing assassin would just make everything about rogue too powerful. Hopefully they tone down warriors a bit and everything would be great.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched vaxatif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinasdf View Post
    I never quite found assassins weak. Their ability to stun and completely CC enemies, not to mention attack from stealth, justifies the lowered DPS rating they have.
    All of which can be done by a ranger or marksman grabbing the goodies from the assassin tree without ever using any of the combat melee abilities.
    "He who talks to the birds is not yet dead, for he has heard life itself!"
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  12. #12
    Telaran
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    I really dont see what rangers/marksman have besides snares/root/knockbacks. Am I missing some OP disarms/silences/in-combat incapacitates or any real "hard CC"?

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boduar View Post
    I really dont see what rangers/marksman have besides snares/root/knockbacks. Am I missing some OP disarms/silences/in-combat incapacitates or any real "hard CC"?
    The ability to benefit a bit too much from the melee souls giving em hard cc.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinasdf View Post
    I never quite found assassins weak. Their ability to stun and completely CC enemies, not to mention attack from stealth, justifies the lowered DPS rating they have.
    Looks like you havent played a melee rogue. "stun and comletelt cc enemies" yeeee righ..

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scayth View Post
    Yes, you're absolutely right, I (and all the other melee rogues who think our dps is subpar) am just building wrong. Can we kill things fine in PVE? Yes! Are we balanced with warrior melee dps, or ranged rogue dps? No! I'm talking about balance, not pure viability, geezus.
    Your never going to get complete balance, that said I have seen other melee rogues as well as myself topping the dps charts in PvP. This is what made me make the suggestion that your specced wrong or something. I have almost never seen a warrior towards the top of the charts, and the only reason ranged rogues out dps is because they live longer by not going in the melee which is the normal tradeoff because usually if you snare them in melee they are screwed. Besides if they brought the melee crit back up to what it was, warriors would still be doing just as much, if not more than us. *shrug* IMO its fine.

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