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Thread: Ranged Attack Instant speed may be too powerful

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Winsom's Avatar
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    Default Ranged Attack Instant speed may be too powerful

    In beta 6, I noticed that QUICK SHOT was probably the most powerful ability my 18th level Rogue (Ranger) ever learned. It is the level 1 ranged-attack. The ability to repeat-cast very useful damage over-and-over (until Energy runs dry, then slightly slower) proved to be extremely powerful, especially in PvP.

    I think Ranged Instants should have small delays between each activation to limit this a bit. They could otherwise be balanced by removing the 1 combo point gained per use, but that seems like the less-fun option to me. Another option would be to disallow instant speed attacks while your character is moving.

    Quick Shots followed by Finisher was possible while my character was constantly moving around. An extremely potent combination. Most Mage spells require the caster to be standing still. Why this difference?

    Consider that ranged attacks are a great way to start a battle in PvE. I found them superior to Stealth attacks, as far as winning battles for me. I would use Stealth attacks "for fun" sometimes but in truth they are not nearly as useful as dealing damage while monsters are still out of range of hurting me.

    This is true in PvP as well. It is much wiser to deal damage while keeping distance from foes than it is to make yourself a more-visible target by moving into melee range.

    If you are moving and not attacking then you are not pressuring your enemy with incoming damage. It takes time to move into melee range (especially if stealthed) and some builds might not have a damage-dealing-at-range option while closing to melee distance, so this makes them weak compared to ranged attackers. All Rogues (I think) have a ranged-attack that can be used while moving so that is less of an issue for them.

    When I compare Instant speed Rogue ranged to Mage spells at range, I found that Mages come up seriously lacking. This is mostly due to Rogues being able to deal damage at Instant Speed (ie. Quick Shot) while a Mage typically needs to spend 1.5 seconds or more to evoke each of their damage spells. Mage Instant speed DoTs were nice and they could be used while moving.

    PLease do something to make Instant Speed ranged attacks less powerful relative to other forms of attacking.

    I think that Instant speed DoT spells are generally well done, although some are a bit low on damage. Those should be compared to Quick Shot-type attacks. Quick Shot takes more energy over time but it can deal superior damage and it builds points for Finishers.
    Last edited by Winsom; 02-11-2011 at 03:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Lemmy's Avatar
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    I can't see what you're getting at.. I've found quick-shot's damage to be pretty poor and it's still subject to the 1-sec global cooldown - and the whole point of the marksman soul is mobility.
    Still have to stand still and cast for the high-dmg shots - empowered and deadeye shot (most of the time!)
    Last edited by Lemmy; 02-11-2011 at 03:34 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran HeavensDemise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winsom View Post
    When I compare Instant speed Rogue ranged to Mage spells at range, I found that Mages come up seriously lacking. This is mostly due to Rogues being able to deal damage at Instant Speed (ie. Quick Shot) while a Mage typically needs to spend 1.5 seconds or more to evoke each of their damage spells. Mage Instant speed DoTs were nice and they could be used while moving.

    PLease do something to make Instant Speed ranged attacks less powerful relative to other forms of attacking.

    I think that Instant speed DoT spells are generally well done, although some are a bit low on damage. Those should be compared to Quick Shot-type attacks. Quick Shot takes more energy over time but it can deal superior damage and it builds points for Finishers.
    So basically you hate facing rogues in pvp as a mage and you want the rogue class to be nerfed.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    dont feed the troll!

    There is no way the OP is serious, he is just bored waiting for tuesday =)

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser
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    ranged rogues are fine where they are they even beefed them up pre beta 5 ...cause the overal rogue damage was lacking compared to mages....instead of asking for a tone down on rogues ask for a crank up on mages... also what one of the previously people who replied said the idea of the marksman is mobility while attacking.... so attacking without getting hit.

    On top of all that it is possible to make a build that would suite yer needs at the time like if yer PVPing add the marksmen soul yerself if ya really think its that OP. ya do realize rift has several souls ya can use and then 4 different builds ya can instantly load while out of combat.....lets see now:
    1. PVP Marksman / Assassin / Riftstalker
    2. PVE Marksman / Assassin / Ranger
    3. Questing (runspeed comes to mind or stealthing) Bard / Ranger / Marksman
    4. Raiding Marksman / Ranger / Assassin

    Hmmm....ya can do the same for any other class it takes time to get this far but it takes time for everyone. Picking builds that suite you just takes time and a lil brainpower from you the player........

    Dont numb down rift its an amazing concept and as of now i think stealth rogues mind need a lil more buffage but im not sure about that i think its fine now!

    Greetz styxxey

  6. #6
    Soulwalker Winsom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I can't see what you're getting at.. I've found quick-shot's damage to be pretty poor and it's still subject to the 1-sec global cooldown
    Did not seem like a full 1 second to me. I was able to press Quick Shot fairly rapidly and run out of energy in just a few seconds.

    For instance, a mage is standing on a wall in PvP. I start shooting at him. I am able to hit several times, possibly adding a finisher before the human at the other side moves to safety. All the human needed to do is drop his character to the "safe" side of the wall to avoid my damage but this pretty much never happened in all the situations where I used this attack. t is hard to beleive that all the dozen+ humans I PvPed against were that oblivious? Clueless for 2 seconds I might understand, but almost-always I was able to get off at least 4 shots.

    They do not seem able to move out of range before taking several hits. Thus I think the Quick Shot is faster than 1 shot per second. I wish I could log in and test it.
    Last edited by Winsom; 02-11-2011 at 04:02 AM.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Korrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winsom View Post
    Did not seem like a full 1 second to me. I was able to press Quick Shot fairly rapidly and run out of energy in just a few seconds.

    For instance, a mage is standing on a wall in PvP. I start shooting at him. I am able to hit several times, possibly adding a finisher before the human at the other side moves to safety. All the human needed to do is drop his character to the "safe" side of the wall to avoid my damage but this pretty much never happened in all the situations where I used this attack. t is hard to beleive that all the dozen+ humans I PvPed against were that oblivious? Clueless for 2 seconds I might understand, but almost-always I was able to get off at least 4 shots.

    They do not seem able to move out of range before taking several hits. Thus I think the Quick Shot is faster than 1 shot per second. I wish I could log in and test it.
    It is not faster then 1 shot per second.

    I have been playing Marksman for a while, and it is always 1s GCD. The situation you get it "tunnel vision" by enemy players... some players just dont pay attention to their own health. They want to kill someone with reckless abandon and just stand their hitting their spells hoping to get a kill... while I pick them off.

    The smart players know how to pillar my shots....
    Last edited by Korrow; 02-11-2011 at 04:14 AM.

  8. #8
    Telaran Eckz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winsom View Post
    In beta 6, I noticed that QUICK SHOT was probably the most powerful ability my 18th level Rogue (Ranger) ever learned. It is the level 1 ranged-attack. The ability to repeat-cast very useful damage over-and-over (until Energy runs dry, then slightly slower) proved to be extremely powerful, especially in PvP.

    I think Ranged Instants should have small delays between each activation to limit this a bit. They could otherwise be balanced by removing the 1 combo point gained per use, but that seems like the less-fun option to me. Another option would be to disallow instant speed attacks while your character is moving.

    Quick Shots followed by Finisher was possible while my character was constantly moving around. An extremely potent combination. Most Mage spells require the caster to be standing still. Why this difference?

    Consider that ranged attacks are a great way to start a battle in PvE. I found them superior to Stealth attacks, as far as winning battles for me. I would use Stealth attacks "for fun" sometimes but in truth they are not nearly as useful as dealing damage while monsters are still out of range of hurting me.

    This is true in PvP as well. It is much wiser to deal damage while keeping distance from foes than it is to make yourself a more-visible target by moving into melee range.

    If you are moving and not attacking then you are not pressuring your enemy with incoming damage. It takes time to move into melee range (especially if stealthed) and some builds might not have a damage-dealing-at-range option while closing to melee distance, so this makes them weak compared to ranged attackers. All Rogues (I think) have a ranged-attack that can be used while moving so that is less of an issue for them.

    When I compare Instant speed Rogue ranged to Mage spells at range, I found that Mages come up seriously lacking. This is mostly due to Rogues being able to deal damage at Instant Speed (ie. Quick Shot) while a Mage typically needs to spend 1.5 seconds or more to evoke each of their damage spells. Mage Instant speed DoTs were nice and they could be used while moving.

    PLease do something to make Instant Speed ranged attacks less powerful relative to other forms of attacking.

    I think that Instant speed DoT spells are generally well done, although some are a bit low on damage. Those should be compared to Quick Shot-type attacks. Quick Shot takes more energy over time but it can deal superior damage and it builds points for Finishers.
    Guess you didn't check how much damage you actually did at the end of the match on the table huh...Also mage's have instant spells too I find it hard to believe you are not trolling

    But ofc lets make ranged attacks do ~50 damage every 5 second's because it's OP quick shot being quick

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