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Thread: Sab Charge Balance Idea

  1. #1
    Jpo
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    Default Sab Charge Balance Idea

    Would sab be still be considered by some as OP'd if you could only attach charges from melee range?
    This kinda makes sense to me.. imagining a person really being starpped with charges..
    To go even further.. maybe a .5sec channel speel that must be cast within 3-5 meters of the target?
    Does this idea screw sabs over?

    Maybe having 1 ranged charge would make it fair?

    Gimme ideas guys............
    Last edited by Jpo; 02-08-2011 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    would completely screw sabs. Sabs don't have any damage mitigation or healing getting into melee would just mean you'll die before you can detonate. You could never make a primarily sab soul it would have to be a tack on to an assassin or nightblade.

    A range reduction might not be too damaging. But really I think sabs are fine as they are. The only change I would make it so that charges break incapacitate on enemies. It is a bit unfair that sabs can stack damage while the enemy cant move.
    Last edited by Occam; 02-08-2011 at 07:13 PM.

  3. #3
    Jpo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam View Post
    would completely screw sabs.
    ok, at what point is it balanced then.. isnt some range reduction merited?
    I play a sab, would not want this, but could understand it....

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    Champion ninefourtyfour's Avatar
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    lol charges at melee range, they woulnt last more than 10 seconds.

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    It wouldn't make much difference, people would just think you're an assassin or bladedancer making them teleport/haste away. This would result in a lot more rogues going marksman for haste. Change all of the charges into bombs with different effects/higher damage and people will stop crying.

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    Champion ninefourtyfour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airflow View Post
    It wouldn't make much difference, people would just think you're an assassin or bladedancer making them teleport/haste away. This would result in a lot more rogues going marksman for haste. Change all of the charges into bombs with different effects/higher damage and people will stop crying.
    lol it would after they realize they are against a sab in melee range. sab are so fragile.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jpo View Post
    Would sab be still be considered by some as OP'd if you could only attach charges from melee range?
    This kinda makes sense to me.. imagining a person really being starpped with charges..
    To go even further.. maybe a .5sec channel speel that must be cast within 3-5 meters of the target?
    Does this idea screw sabs over?
    If charges were kept as they are now, and just made to work in melee range (instead of the 20m range you need for detonate, 30m for charges with 5/5 in remote clipping), you would be exclusively better off playing either a real melee character or a marksman (I'd go with marksman personally). If you made them a .5 sec channel spell that had to be cast in melee range.. I'm not even sure I could describe to you how dead you'd be. I'd certainly bet on any melee DPS killing you, and probably taking no damage. You'd go from 5 seconds of nothing before det/annihilation bomb to 7.5 seconds of nothing + ability, as well as having to be in melee range the entire time.

    I'm not sure how much changing them would be necessary, but something with charge booster and the crit chance for multiple charges at once would fix a lot of the problems, I think.

  8. #8
    Jpo
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    Thanks for the responses guys. Yeah, Charge booster could use a fix.

    What if detonate became a channel spell? Ug, really, I hope this never happens Lol.

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    They just need to reduce the critical modifier on charges for the lower levels... But at level 50 I assume it's going to balance out when people have a TON of armor(mitigation), dodge, parry, block and elemental resists from essences..
    Last edited by airflow; 02-09-2011 at 07:10 PM.

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    I posted this idea in another thread, but an argument broke out about something else for 4 or so pages so it got buried, so gonna re-post it here to actually see what people think.

    First off, make applying charges not break stealth (if you have Silent Setup) and traps don't break stealth until they're placed (the cast is done, rather than at start of cast).

    Then make these differences for applying charges at range and melee:

    Melee = no visible effect to the target except the debuff icon, increased critical chance on charges (since you can place them more strategically in melee).

    Range = Reduced chance to hit and crit with charges (throwing them is less accurate), and while throwing charges doesn't break stealth, it does have a decently visible graphic of the charge flying through the air from the rogue towards the target that can be back-traced to find the rogue.

    It does make getting a stealth soul as a second soul kind of necessary, but only 4 points in gets you the stealth. Or if you just want to go from range, you can try marksman talents to boost the hit chance.

    It's a risk/reward trade-off. If you want to be someone who sits back and throws explosives, you're safer but not as lethal. If you're willing to sneak in and place the charges more carefully, you get better results.
    Last edited by Aldurok; 02-09-2011 at 07:26 PM.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    I personally don't see anything wrong with them.

    People need to realize this is rift and the cookie cutter classes from other games won't cut it.

    Nobody has gotten to end game yet, I am betting everything will balance out a bit. The sab is front loaded in their tree to get the majority of their damage modifiers early. We are seeing low level chars complaining about damage. This is kinda ludicrous.

    Shift the tree around a bit so some of those damage modifiers are a little higher in the tree and you won't see near as many partial point sabs. They won't be getting those great numbers for damage at such a low level.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldurok View Post
    I posted this idea in another thread, but an argument broke out about something else for 4 or so pages so it got buried, so gonna re-post it here to actually see what people think.

    First off, make applying charges not break stealth (if you have Silent Setup) and traps don't break stealth until they're placed (the cast is done, rather than at start of cast).

    Then make these differences for applying charges at range and melee:

    Melee = no visible effect to the target except the debuff icon, increased critical chance on charges (since you can place them more strategically in melee).

    Range = Reduced chance to hit and crit with charges (throwing them is less accurate), and while throwing charges doesn't break stealth, it does have a decently visible graphic of the charge flying through the air from the rogue towards the target that can be back-traced to find the rogue.

    It does make getting a stealth soul as a second soul kind of necessary, but only 4 points in gets you the stealth. Or if you just want to go from range, you can try marksman talents to boost the hit chance.

    It's a risk/reward trade-off. If you want to be someone who sits back and throws explosives, you're safer but not as lethal. If you're willing to sneak in and place the charges more carefully, you get better results.
    placing charges in stealth is a terrible idea. i can see assassins going 13 points into sab placing the charges in stealth in melee then paralyzing>back stab>backstab detonate. Possibly worst idea ever.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Odaman's Avatar
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    They could balance out later, and if that's the case then I don't think nerfing them for the lower levels is an option. If they are still doing insane burst that can only really be countered by one soul then they should reduce charge damage and increase their bomb dmg, or just make them a bomb throwing class alone and then give them a few nice finishers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahkon View Post
    I personally don't see anything wrong with them.

    People need to realize this is rift and the cookie cutter classes from other games won't cut it.

    Nobody has gotten to end game yet, I am betting everything will balance out a bit. The sab is front loaded in their tree to get the majority of their damage modifiers early. We are seeing low level chars complaining about damage. This is kinda ludicrous.

    Shift the tree around a bit so some of those damage modifiers are a little higher in the tree and you won't see near as many partial point sabs. They won't be getting those great numbers for damage at such a low level.
    Cookie cutter classes wont cut it? tell that to 50% of the games population playing some form of ranged rogue.

  15. #15
    Jpo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldurok View Post
    I posted this idea in another thread, but an argument broke out about something else for 4 or so pages so it got buried, so gonna re-post it here to actually see what people think.

    First off, make applying charges not break stealth (if you have Silent Setup) and traps don't break stealth until they're placed (the cast is done, rather than at start of cast).

    Then make these differences for applying charges at range and melee:

    Melee = no visible effect to the target except the debuff icon, increased critical chance on charges (since you can place them more strategically in melee).

    Range = Reduced chance to hit and crit with charges (throwing them is less accurate), and while throwing charges doesn't break stealth, it does have a decently visible graphic of the charge flying through the air from the rogue towards the target that can be back-traced to find the rogue.

    It does make getting a stealth soul as a second soul kind of necessary, but only 4 points in gets you the stealth. Or if you just want to go from range, you can try marksman talents to boost the hit chance.

    It's a risk/reward trade-off. If you want to be someone who sits back and throws explosives, you're safer but not as lethal. If you're willing to sneak in and place the charges more carefully, you get better results.
    Yo I think this sounds like an awesome idea. someone else said this was broken, but devs could come up with a balance (such as if you detonate withing 10m you stun yourself for 2s and take 25% of the total damage)

    Aldurok, I was trying to think of a way to make attaching charges in melee viable.. this is it. And it makes perfect sens, if you attach charges up close, they can be placed on "vital spots" and therefore crit more. And less accracy from range is right on, maybe it could actively scale down as you get further?

    Nice ideas here man. Sorry no one tries to help improve your good idea, just says how its bad.

    Thanks for the response man.

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