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Thread: Are Saboteurs really that bad?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Are Saboteurs really that bad?

    I have been playing Saboteur for a while and really can't see what the problem is. In every threat I have read about people saying that Saboteurs are overpowered, they act as if it doesn't take 6 global cooldowns for a Saboteur to set up their damage.

    The primary advantage a Saboteur has over everyone else, is 6 global cooldowns of their damage are compressed down into the very last second. Now, this leads to Saboteurs being hard to heal through. But this is always where their weakness lies. If an enemy can live through that bursty damage, then they win. After charges, detonate and a bomb or two, Saboteurs don't really have any damage they can put out. It takes them 6 global cooldowns to set up again. If you let a Saboteur do this, you deserve to lose a fight.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    I heard that saboteurs don't even need to engage to do this. If that's true, it's probably this in particular that needs to be nerfed, because those 6 gcds mean nothing if you don't even have to engage.

  3. #3
    Telaran Occasus's Avatar
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    There is a 3pt skill which reduces threat by 33%/66%/100% (Silent Setup)

    This would only be good in PVE and in multiple mobs fights on the first target.

    In PVP, if i was to see charge debuffs being placed on me, I would be hunting that little sucker down

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seriau View Post
    I have been playing Saboteur for a while and really can't see what the problem is. In every threat I have read about people saying that Saboteurs are overpowered, they act as if it doesn't take 6 global cooldowns for a Saboteur to set up their damage.

    The primary advantage a Saboteur has over everyone else, is 6 global cooldowns of their damage are compressed down into the very last second. Now, this leads to Saboteurs being hard to heal through. But this is always where their weakness lies. If an enemy can live through that bursty damage, then they win. After charges, detonate and a bomb or two, Saboteurs don't really have any damage they can put out. It takes them 6 global cooldowns to set up again. If you let a Saboteur do this, you deserve to lose a fight.
    not gonna say much more then SABS are by far the best dps class in the game for simply killing in pvp, bar none. the so called down time of 6 GCD's after your anni bomb is negligable since you can kite, and use other bombs as well as harassing with MM movement increasing skills. just the fact that 3 blast charges crits for 1400+ on my sab is win. when you actually setup the aoe, all 4 bombs with 5 B charges, you will wipe the entire enemy team if they stand together. done it like a dozen times this weekend at lvl 35.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by labotimy View Post
    not gonna say much more then SABS are by far the best dps class in the game for simply killing in pvp, bar none. the so called down time of 6 GCD's after your anni bomb is negligable since you can kite, and use other bombs as well as harassing with MM movement increasing skills. just the fact that 3 blast charges crits for 1400+ on my sab is win. when you actually setup the aoe, all 4 bombs with 5 B charges, you will wipe the entire enemy team if they stand together. done it like a dozen times this weekend at lvl 35.
    lol you learned this tactic back in the 16 bit arcade days... don't follow the guy holding the black bowling ball with a sparkly string coming out of it! Traps/placed bombs only last 60 seconds.... if you're chasing a rogue you just saw and he turns to run away instantly, or you see him planting the bombs, why are you going over there!?!?!?!?!

  6. #6
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorf View Post
    lol you learned this tactic back in the 16 bit arcade days... don't follow the guy holding the black bowling ball with a sparkly string coming out of it! Traps/placed bombs only last 60 seconds.... if you're chasing a rogue you just saw and he turns to run away instantly, or you see him planting the bombs, why are you going over there!?!?!?!?!
    what in the bloody f*** are you talking about. bombs are not traps....lulz. obv never played sab and attempting to troll someone who has. bombs are instant cast aoe affect skills that ARE NOT TRAPS. they have low cooldowns and all of them do AOE effects whether its slow or damage. plz plz dont post unless youve actually played the soul.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Default I don't think so

    I have been playing a Saboteur for the last few weeks on Alpha. I don't think they are that bad. Sure they can burst you down, but if you blind them, they can't really do much.

    I can't tell you how many times I have been killed while trying to set up my bombs. It's the nature of the game. Sometimes I go click, other times I don't.

    I don't see why people are crying nerf all the time. I did not play WoW, I came from Vanguard and games like that.

    You will always have a class that is more powerful than another class in certain situations. Deal with it!

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    Im am playing a sab rogue in Warfronts,, and its Good , but I wanna know how much dps it does,, ofc people will whine when you use 6 globals and do all damage at once.. but I wonder how much damage it does if u split it to dps.. is it still more then most classes then it needs fixing..

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    I dont see a reason of that much crying too. The DPS they do isn't greater than any other DPS soul meaning it isn't that big of an issue for anyone other than Clerics in fact its even has a downsiede as short duration def skills will even be more effective against it. Sure the way the dmg is applied makes it harder to be healed but why shouldn't heal have an effective counter and Souls that do great against healers. Sabs do suffer from a lack of deffensive abilities to compansate for that.

    But still as any soul there are things to fix in a sab . What i think needs fixing is :

    AoE slow granade shouldnt be a 0 point root ability . I feel its getting exploited by too many rouges that get it just for free.

    Charge Booster lower the limit of cahrges that can be put on a target 10 is kind of too much , but i;m not really sure how this will scale latter on because 2 of most type of charges dont do the dmg of 1 BC but they still do Earth Dmg instead of physicle and people at the moment dont have as much Ressist as P.Deff and every type of charge passes its own crit chance test meaning although you want see as big dmg as 6 BC criting you will see an overal increase in dmg passing through a deffence stat that most people lack at the moment .

    Incapacitate and charges- getting out of stealth incapacitating a target and hitting him for 6 GCD of dmg is frankly stupid , but still even that has its downsides for starters it can be countered as there are many abilities to get you out of that effect including the pvp souls 0 points root ability , it works only on targets out of combat and the sabs isn't in hide while deploying charges meaning its useless outside of 1on1 cases and even then its not 100% sure you can pull it out.But still can be tweaked a little.
    Last edited by Anixiel; 02-08-2011 at 04:06 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Faolon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sildor View Post
    Im am playing a sab rogue in Warfronts,, and its Good , but I wanna know how much dps it does,, ofc people will whine when you use 6 globals and do all damage at once.. but I wonder how much damage it does if u split it to dps.. is it still more then most classes then it needs fixing..
    Sab doesn't do DPS. It does BURST DAMAGE.

    Damage per second isn't where the sab does it's thing since the soul is never constantly laying down the hurt. There's always 6 seconds(or so) of nothing.




    The problem people have with Sab is the fact that it's all back-loaded damage, as opposed to front-loaded. When people think burst, they think a big amount of damage up front that drops quickly the longer the character is attacking. Sab does pretty much the opposite of that. It does no damage up front and has it's burst at the end.

    So people don't see it as "I got hit 6 times for X damage", they see it as "I got hit once and it did 6 GCDs worth of damage".

  11. #11
    General of Telara
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    Actually it does do DPS. ALl you do is take the damage dealt by the detonate and divide it by the 5 seconds it took to charge them and then hit detonate.

    I saw a video of a level 32 sab blowing someone up. They did 2773 damage over 9 seconds, or 308 dps. At its burstiest the dps rose to 562.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsensei436 View Post
    Actually it does do DPS. ALl you do is take the damage dealt by the detonate and divide it by the 5 seconds it took to charge them and then hit detonate.

    I saw a video of a level 32 sab blowing someone up. They did 2773 damage over 9 seconds, or 308 dps. At its burstiest the dps rose to 562.
    Yes you can break down the damage and call it damage per second. But burst is still burst anyway you slice it. With sab you don't care about how much damage per second you can do. You care about how much damage you can do at once.

    What I love, are the people who will chase me when I run off, and just let me add all my charges on. If they were aware of what was going on, they could just turn and run the other way when they see the first couple of charges go up. With me running the opposite direction they'd break range *very* quickly making those charges worthless unless I spend the time to chase them down. But if I have another enemy closer I"m more likely to just go after them. Net result., they caused me to waste time putting charges up and I did zero damage in that time.

    Unless they are marks...then they just chase after me kicking my arse and possibly killing me before I can detonate...or killing me right after I detonate...

  13. #13
    Rift Master
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    Take PvP, its far easier to kite and stay at range than it is to close range. Sabs just bunny hop around like nothing never being stopped by anything to only pretty much 1 hit someone. Take a melee rogues damage for example. 6 GCDs (1 build up+combo attack) is nowhere near equal damage AND you have to be in melee range for that so...

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    Burst is deadly in PvP and its probably why people see the Sab's damage and belive it too be so Op, but is it really the Sab is a bit off an all or nothing class as far as I can tell their are so many variables in the situation with the damage, like allowing the Sab too live long enough to put 6 bombs on you the player moving out of range ect. Sure if the sab pulls the full 6 bombs off then he is going to do a lot of damage but as a player their is a lot you can do too simply stop this happening.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Enerzeal's Avatar
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    My class hit level 16 before beta ended. My build is unique and awesome. It does not include saboteur. What it does include is MM/NB/SIN.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...V0AuzR.0VMcxcb (build for those who want it, at 50)

    Enpowered shot hasted shot and swift shot with the buffs hellfire blades and Virulent Poison. At level 16 this is all the abilities I used for dps generation.

    Swift shot did 100 before crit with procs on blade effects and 60 without. (100-120 on crits)
    Empowering shot did 240 with procs and 200 without. (upto about 340 on crits)
    Hasted shot did 200 without procs 240 with. (and upto 400 when it crit)

    An average collection of attacks would go something like 220 + 60 + 80 + 100 + 260 = 640 damage taking no crits into effect and about 3 procs.

    A perfect set of attacks would be something like 340+120+120+120+400=1100 damage at level 16.

    This is basically following the path of 5 combo points and a finisher, the process a sab goes through to get its bombs activated and detonated.



    To be fair sabs all or nothing approach is going to be the sauce of fail in end game fights. Alls you need is one mitigation ability to lower the damage of that explosion, and they have to spend another 6 GCD to get the damage out again. Not to mention the damage mitigation brought about through the pvp soul. The only suggestion I have for sabs is scale them better.

    And for those getting taken out by them, L2P really, spot the bombs before they go off, use stuns to stretch out that window of oppertunity, prepair some heals that activate from damage taken, use CDs etc. Avoid the bombs, make them set up all over again.

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