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Thread: Assassin/Night Blade/Marksmen? PvP? Your thoughts?

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    Shadowlander dezmeron's Avatar
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    Default Assassin/Night Blade/Marksmen? PvP? Your thoughts?

    The build:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...ofzoboz.xMxR0z

    Benefits:
    Marksmen - Not totally melee dependant.
    --Got dead eye shot and empowered shot when the call for ranged is needed. Hit and Run is great for kiting or to get kiters.

    Hard to kite - hasted shot, swift shot, on the double with getaway, improved twilight force, malicious strike, hasty departure
    --with this potential build at level 16 I was taking down full marksmen builds (some had healers) by using swift shot and hasted shot to close the gap while they tried to kite then barely did anything in melee. Also, it still does damage as you run at them. I keep forgetting to use malicious strike. Improved twilight force doubles the closing gap time. Not to keen on the other night blade ranged expect twilight force. They are there if you like them though. Only issue is with non-rooting/snaring CC.

    Damage Boost - cloak and dagger (situational), blazing fury, coup de grace, expose weakness, heat retention (30% finisher buff potential)
    --didn't take melted skin due to using lethal and leeching posion.

    Crowd Control - (highly effective if used correctly) incapacitate, lost hope, dark containment, blind
    --just hope dark containment and blind are on seperate cool downs. Seems like they would be.

    Smother - is just OP if the websites I've seen are right and it doesn't have a cool down. If it does then I'll put 4 more points into night blade and use fel blades.

    Highly Mobile - on the double, hasty departure, hasted shot (situational) Eth Racial (used while stealthed just before entering combat)

    Oh Crap Move - Twilight Shelter
    --for when you just gotta survive over DPSing.

    Crits - Ruthlessness, Lethal Poison, Improved Savage Strike (builder and your not going to be able to backstab the entire fight), Improved Blazing Strike (finisher), Magnify Pain
    --Gotta love crits

    .......

    Don't know if I want to get Increased fire power or keen eye. Increased range is always good but when you close the gap (and you will) if the fire power procs your still have a 25% AP buff for melee until it wears off.

    Any thoughts or constructive critisizm?
    "I think the idea of art kills creativity." -Douglas Noel Adams

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Reavan's Avatar
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    The build is terrible, you are delving into too many different forms of DPS. Night Blade is magical based, MM is not, going into Assa over Night blade would be beneficial.
    No real synergy between them, your only real hope at avoiding kiters is on the double and I assure you, that will not be enough.
    And even more to the point, Most of Night Blades own attacks are ranged, there is no point to having MM over something else that offers better mobility, like Rift stalker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reavan View Post
    The build is terrible, you are delving into too many different forms of DPS. Night Blade is magical based, MM is not, going into Assa over Night blade would be beneficial.
    No real synergy between them, your only real hope at avoiding kiters is on the double and I assure you, that will not be enough.
    And even more to the point, Most of Night Blades own attacks are ranged, there is no point to having MM over something else that offers better mobility, like Rift stalker.
    Yep, pretty much. No reason to go Marks if you are going NB already. You are just losing far too much out of the NB tree for that to be viable.

    Plus, not going at least 32 points in NB is really really really fail.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara
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    Dont listen to noobs who have no idea how the game works, that build will work fine, its actually a type of build most melee pvp specs use to take out runners using dead eye shot, whill still keeping perma stealth and geting the nice NB buffs

    Smother is also out of stealth only

    I personally would scrap the melee and just go ranged since its much stronger than melee at this point, shift all points from NB into MM, and keep 5 points in NB for 15% combo point damage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bejita View Post
    Dont listen to noobs who have no idea how the game works, that build will work fine, its actually a type of build most melee pvp specs use to take out runners using dead eye shot, whill still keeping perma stealth and geting the nice NB buffs

    Smother is also out of stealth only

    I personally would scrap the melee and just go ranged since its much stronger than melee at this point, shift all points from NB into MM, and keep 5 points in NB for 15% combo point damage
    Actually, the build is gimp. Don't call people noobs as your main argument, as the only thing you are saying is that you are a noob.

    The problem with the build above is that it has no focus. Its gimp in melee, and gimp at range. You are better off either going more into melee, or more into range, instead of trying to bastardize them. Not to mention that the spec is incredibly fail as you don't get any of the really important stuff in nightblade (basically skipping over everything thats good, lol). For some movement speed increasers in MM (since as stated, NBs can already do ranged damage). But then, if you are melee... why are you trying to kite people around? It isn't hard to catch people already with the tools you have in NB and Sin... not to mention you can always go for another 3rd soul instead of ranger and get some other anti-kiting utility (riftstalker, sab, whatever).

    For instance, lets go with a better melee build since thats what the focus here is.

    First of all, if your PvPing with the build. Not getting/using fel blades is a big fail. Its probably the bet reason to put 20+ points in nightblade, period.

    Not to mention that hes missing some very key abilities.Like Flame Thrust, the NB ranged finisher. Or the +9% to elemental damage...or Ebon Fury, which is amazing. Or Scourge of Darkness, or the +30% damage when the enemy is at low health, etc...Basically, your giving up HUGE damage and melee potential, for some movement speed boosts.. (since NB damage is already ranged...) Compared to a more focused NB build, you'll do much less damage, have much less utility, and just as much range.... the only thing you are gaining really is the movement speed boosts. But then again you could just go Rift Stalker as a 3rd for plane shift, or Sab for the AoE snare, and grab abilities with better synergy anyway.
    Last edited by Foofmonger; 02-08-2011 at 10:04 AM.

  6. #6
    Telaran Mentalbroccoli's Avatar
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    Imo you should always have 12 points in Bladedancer and 21 points in Infiltrator in a lv 50 build. Tha would make 1v1 pvp a lot easier since you'd have a 5 sec silence ever 10 sec, a mana drainer, an interupt added to all finishers you use and 25% less spell damage taken and a lot more goodies. Mix that with either offensive soul and it's win imo, though ofc we'll have to wait until lv 50 to really know. Nightblade would benefit less though since armor pen is useless on the elemental attacks (I think).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentalbroccoli View Post
    Imo you should always have 12 points in Bladedancer and 21 points in Infiltrator in a lv 50 build. Tha would make 1v1 pvp a lot easier since you'd have a 5 sec silence ever 10 sec, a mana drainer, an interupt added to all finishers you use and 25% less spell damage taken and a lot more goodies. Mix that with either offensive soul and it's win imo, though ofc we'll have to wait until lv 50 to really know. Nightblade would benefit less though since armor pen is useless on the elemental attacks (I think).
    Infil is basically useless as a main Nightblade.

    Nightblade/Bladedancer can be decent, (or NB/X/Bladedancer), but generally then you want to give up assasin as your 2nd.
    Last edited by Foofmonger; 02-08-2011 at 10:08 AM.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    There is alot of ways to spec according to play style, one persons great spec may be anothers gimp spec. I have a 31 rogue and played most of the souls checking out thier strenghs and weaknesses, how well they complimeant other souls etc. For stealthy type I like high assassin, ( 2 stuns, blinding powder, snare, and improved stealth movement and perma stealth), I like sab as a 2nd soul for passive dex increase, aoe root and charging up kiters who got out of melee range and deting them. 3rd soul is up for grabs, I like bladedancer for dodge but also like nightshade. My thinking with nightshade is anytime attacks are buffed up damage plus against chain/plate wearers I can use elemental attacks of nightshade that wont mitigate my damage like assassin physical attacks get mitgated. Thats just me tho.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bejita View Post
    Dont listen to noobs who have no idea how the game works, that build will work fine, its actually a type of build most melee pvp specs use to take out runners using dead eye shot, whill still keeping perma stealth and geting the nice NB buffs

    Smother is also out of stealth only

    I personally would scrap the melee and just go ranged since its much stronger than melee at this point, shift all points from NB into MM, and keep 5 points in NB for 15% combo point damage
    I think the point is, that type of build works far better just going straight assassin/marks. What you gain from Nightblade is superflous because you already have MM. The point of going NB is so that you could skip assassin and marks, and pick up some other souls that would do some other things for you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystal View Post
    I think the point is, that type of build works far better just going straight assassin/marks. What you gain from Nightblade is superflous because you already have MM. The point of going NB is so that you could skip assassin and marks, and pick up some other souls that would do some other things for you.
    Yep, or the other way around, what you are getting from MM is pointless because you already have NB.

    NB/Sin isn't a bad combo either, its just if your going to do that, you sure as hell should be going 32 points deep in NB at the very least.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Satiar's Avatar
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    Slight variation I'm messing with : http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....0VMfdcboz.V0x

    Damage enhancers from Nightblade.

    Damage/crit/poison and Permastealth from Assassin

    And a whole lot of Marksman goodness.
    Last edited by Satiar; 02-08-2011 at 12:23 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiar View Post
    Slight variation I'm messing with : http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M....0VRcxMbc.V0xM

    Damage enhancers from Nightblade.

    Damage/crit/poison and Permastealth from Assassin

    And a whole lot of Marksman goodness.
    Thats a bladedancer build.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Satiar's Avatar
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    And when you fail, you fail hard.

    Fixed.
    Last edited by Satiar; 02-08-2011 at 12:23 PM.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander dezmeron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foofmonger View Post
    First of all, if your PvPing with the build. Not getting/using fel blades is a big fail. Its probably the bet reason to put 20+ points in nightblade, period.

    Not to mention that hes missing some very key abilities.Like Flame Thrust, the NB ranged finisher. Or the +9% to elemental damage...or Ebon Fury, which is amazing. Or Scourge of Darkness, or the +30% damage when the enemy is at low health, etc...Basically, your giving up HUGE damage and melee potential, for some movement speed boosts.. (since NB damage is already ranged...) Compared to a more focused NB build, you'll do much less damage, have much less utility, and just as much range.... the only thing you are gaining really is the movement speed boosts. But then again you could just go Rift Stalker as a 3rd for plane shift, or Sab for the AoE snare, and grab abilities with better synergy anyway.
    I wasn't taking NB for the ranged. NB was for damage increases, lost hope, silence and the improved twilight snare mainly. Not for it's ranged attacks. I do realize Fel Blades (32 point root ability) is great for PvP but its a trade off over a 30 cooldown trink that removes snares and such, and perma stealth which I am not giving up. Basically you loose to much in utility. Also, with a no cool down silence and foul play you can pretty much shutdown healers.

    Marksmen is for closing the gap with hasted shot and the mobility of on the double. Movement speed can make or break a combat.

    Flame thrust was skipped due to having dead eye and hasted shot. 9% elem damage would only really enhance 2 abilities (twilight blade and blazing stirke) twilight blade is for the snare not damage, so in essence only 1 ability. No reason for ebon Fury if I am using backstab other than the bonous combo point from dusk strike. Straight NB is only 20 meter ranged. In open PvP it can be kited easy.

    Kiting people in with a more focused melee has it's places. Example: Kiting the warrior after you just killed off the healer and are low health with no pots available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reavan View Post
    The build is terrible, you are delving into too many different forms of DPS. Night Blade is magical based, MM is not, going into Assa over Night blade would be beneficial.
    No real synergy between them, your only real hope at avoiding kiters is on the double and I assure you, that will not be enough.
    And even more to the point, Most of Night Blades own attacks are ranged, there is no point to having MM over something else that offers better mobility, like Rift stalker.
    Not really sure by what you mean no synergy. DPS is DPS regardless of type other than some can bypass armor or resistance and the other can't. Both gain from the same stat (unless rogues are supposed to be getting spell power for magic damage). NB offers great help to the sin. A finisher is a finisher and combo point builders are combo point builders. Poisons are still weapon enchantments as well.

    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

    I am focusing more on stealth melee that is hard as crap to kite. The 3rd soul was a toss up between MM and Riftstalker but RS requires to many points into it to get all the shifting abilities with descent CDs and MM has the poor mans trink.

    Thanks for you guys opinion. Think I will be going more Night blade with Rift Stalker. Just don't think the NB ranged is far enough for the more open enviroments. I just love the sneakyness of the sin but it can be worked around. Just hope there is enough points left to max out the infiltrator.
    "I think the idea of art kills creativity." -Douglas Noel Adams

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dezmeron View Post
    I wasn't taking NB for the ranged. NB was for damage increases, lost hope, silence and the improved twilight snare mainly. Not for it's ranged attacks. I do realize Fel Blades (32 point root ability) is great for PvP but its a trade off over a 30 cooldown trink that removes snares and such, and perma stealth which I am not giving up. Basically you loose to much in utility. Also, with a no cool down silence and foul play you can pretty much shutdown healers.
    This is exactly why it doesn't make any sense.

    1. Fel Blades alone is worth more then everything you get in MM. There is no trade off. You don't "lose" any utility, you gain a massive amount though.

    2. Going up that far in NB (your main path) and not using it for ranged attacks is fail.

    3. There is no "no cooldown silence", its out of stealth.

    4. If you want to "shut down healers" its called killing them, and for that you want the NB stuff and Fel Blades.

    Marksmen is for closing the gap with hasted shot and the mobility of on the double. Movement speed can make or break a combat.
    You don't need MM for closing the gap. Twilight Force snare + Ebon Fury much? Or speccing secondary Riftstalker instead of MM and getting shadow shift. Not to mention that you have stealth in the first place.

    Flame thrust was skipped due to having dead eye and hasted shot.
    Sigh

    9% elem damage would only really enhance 2 abilities (twilight blade and blazing stirke) twilight blade is for the snare not damage, so in essence only 1 ability. No reason for ebon Fury if I am using backstab other than the bonous combo point from dusk strike. Straight NB is only 20 meter ranged. In open PvP it can be kited easy.
    Almost everything you wrote here is incorrect.

    Kiting people in with a more focused melee has it's places. Example: Kiting the warrior after you just killed off the healer and are low health with no pots available.
    Good luck kiting a champ, or a VK, or a Riftblade.. A good one will have 3-4 ways to catch you just fine, regardless of what you try to do with your couple of points in MM.

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