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Thread: Riftstalker-Bard tank build

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    Telaran Nakkiel's Avatar
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    Default Riftstalker-Bard tank build

    Just want to get some feedback, I think it will work very nicely.
    Riftstalker-Bard
    Last edited by Nakkiel; 02-07-2011 at 10:43 PM. Reason: Updated Spec
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkiel View Post
    Just want to get some feedback, I think it will work very nicely.

    Riftstalker-Bard
    I normally oppose these builds but since you asked for feedback I'll give my personal opinions on it:

    Firstly, the only advantage that I can find in normally using the riftstalker/bard combination to tank with lies in it's ability to self-heal to reduce required amount of heals and increase combo point generation for use with Rift Guard. Unfortunately, you decided not to take either of the 2 tree abilities that add this functionality (invigorated soul + coda of restoration) so you are left with 21 pts in bard spent to get only 10% extra hp and 3% less chance to be hit..... You do receive the motifs but at a reduced effectiveness to a pure bard and at a cost of your personal threat generation...

    As far as Riftstalker investments go.... you've overspent your points in this tree for no real extra benefit. At the very least take the 2 points out of unseen fury and put them into the hit talent in bladedancer so you can reduce your misses and get false blade to increase your overall avoidance. Defer Death seems to be nearly useless to me for PvE (from the wording it appears you still take the entire amount of accumulated damage from that 10s period) excepting last second fight win situations or used in combination with the riftstalker 51 pt ability. It is not worth investing points in the tree just to receive this one ability.

    While you are at it you can also probably remove the extra points from Death from the Shadows. As a late game tank this should b e one of your least used shifts because it will force the boss to turn. Further, it's on a 45s(30 talented) cooldown and you don't really need it to do damage. This frees up 4 points total now that you could spend in any number of ways to build towards the riftstalker/bard self-sufficient tank.

    Hope that helps a bit.

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    Telaran Nakkiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulain View Post
    I normally oppose these builds but since you asked for feedback I'll give my personal opinions on it:

    Firstly, the only advantage that I can find in normally using the riftstalker/bard combination to tank with lies in it's ability to self-heal to reduce required amount of heals and increase combo point generation for use with Rift Guard. Unfortunately, you decided not to take either of the 2 tree abilities that add this functionality (invigorated soul + coda of restoration) so you are left with 21 pts in bard spent to get only 10% extra hp and 3% less chance to be hit..... You do receive the motifs but at a reduced effectiveness to a pure bard and at a cost of your personal threat generation...

    As far as Riftstalker investments go.... you've overspent your points in this tree for no real extra benefit. At the very least take the 2 points out of unseen fury and put them into the hit talent in bladedancer so you can reduce your misses and get false blade to increase your overall avoidance. Defer Death seems to be nearly useless to me for PvE (from the wording it appears you still take the entire amount of accumulated damage from that 10s period) excepting last second fight win situations or used in combination with the riftstalker 51 pt ability. It is not worth investing points in the tree just to receive this one ability.

    While you are at it you can also probably remove the extra points from Death from the Shadows. As a late game tank this should b e one of your least used shifts because it will force the boss to turn. Further, it's on a 45s(30 talented) cooldown and you don't really need it to do damage. This frees up 4 points total now that you could spend in any number of ways to build towards the riftstalker/bard self-sufficient tank.

    Hope that helps a bit.
    The fist 2 Bard tiers are obvious why they are beneficial, but beyond that: Motifs in general for 5-mans, Anthem of Glory (Armor buff) which will stack with a full bard's Anthem of Defiance, Fanfare of Vigor with improved (HP boost), Riff (Quick 5-point Rift Guard, short cd)

    I'll definately take the hit % though, that abil gained is nice. I also shifted those 2 points in Death from the Shadows to Extended grief.

    While the healing abils seem nice, they aren't. To my knowledge they do not scale with HP or AP, and obviously you won't be stacking SP. Since you should have alot of HP (should be #1 stat w/ the hp[ based shields) those heals won't do much of anything.

    Updated Spec
    Earth licks her dayburnt wounds - pouring out the sweetest dew, feeding our hungry eyes with images of fallen angels.
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    Farewell to daylight, hail to the hallowed night. Spread out your wings, the sun is dead and gone.

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    not sure why you would not get coda of resto. If anything i would think healing a group for 300-400 a pop can only help with aggro.

    And i have crit for over 500 at level 29 with coda of resto
    Last edited by Kaine13x7; 02-07-2011 at 09:52 PM.

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    Telaran
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    Bard/Riftstalker/Bladedancer

    I'm thinkin this could be nice at lvl50. Seems like the a nice mix of Self healing, Buff-Bot, Aoe/Single target Tanking.

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    Telaran Nakkiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaine13x7 View Post
    not sure why you would not get coda of resto. If anything i would think healing a group for 300-400 a pop can only help with aggro.

    And i have crit for over 500 at level 29 with coda of resto
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkiel View Post
    While the healing abils seem nice, they aren't. To my knowledge they do not scale with HP or AP, and obviously you won't be stacking SP. Since you should have alot of HP (should be #1 stat w/ the hp[ based shields) those heals won't do much of anything.
    This^ Also Rift Guard is a better spend of combo points..
    Last edited by Nakkiel; 02-07-2011 at 10:52 PM.
    Earth licks her dayburnt wounds - pouring out the sweetest dew, feeding our hungry eyes with images of fallen angels.
    Seven stones of silver, a crown for you and me. The lover's words of sin and pleasure the chains that let us see.
    The tree of good and evil, the snakes that crawl from path to path. All of them are with us here to whisper songs of lust and wrath.
    Farewell to daylight, hail to the hallowed night. Spread out your wings, the sun is dead and gone.

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    Telaran Nakkiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafeek View Post
    Bard/Riftstalker/Bladedancer

    I'm thinkin this could be nice at lvl50. Seems like the a nice mix of Self healing, Buff-Bot, Aoe/Single target Tanking.
    Rift Barrier is basically needed for Riftstalker to tank.. the entire point of the spec is to chain damage reduct shields.
    Earth licks her dayburnt wounds - pouring out the sweetest dew, feeding our hungry eyes with images of fallen angels.
    Seven stones of silver, a crown for you and me. The lover's words of sin and pleasure the chains that let us see.
    The tree of good and evil, the snakes that crawl from path to path. All of them are with us here to whisper songs of lust and wrath.
    Farewell to daylight, hail to the hallowed night. Spread out your wings, the sun is dead and gone.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkiel View Post
    Rift Barrier is basically needed for Riftstalker to tank.. the entire point of the spec is to chain damage reduct shields.
    I was under the impression that Barrier and Guard don't stack, so I figured u could get away with using those 6 points elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafeek View Post
    I was under the impression that Barrier and Guard don't stack, so I figured u could get away with using those 6 points elsewhere.
    barrier atm is 25% mit that does not stack with guard. its only real use is to have a bubble up at initiation. maybe if it stacked and mitigated say 15% it would be worthwhile but atm i feel barier is a complete waste of pts, you could either be getting parry out of BD like many people do, or go bard like i do for more HP and more mitigation overall via motif of tenacity or a specced anthem of glory or defiance. dumping exactly 8 pts into BD aint a bad idea since youll be getting 5% parry 3% hit and a 5% parry buff finisher. honestly tho bard/rift combo outshine the other rogue tank combos in pvp so hard its not even a comparison, but for pve id say rift/BD if you have a bard, and bard/rift if you dont. it is my opinion that both will tank effectively at this stage in the beta.

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    Champion ninefourtyfour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafeek View Post
    I was under the impression that Barrier and Guard don't stack, so I figured u could get away with using those 6 points elsewhere.
    it doesnt stack, but you can chain it as Nakkiel said. I usually put it up after guarded steel

  11. #11
    Telaran Nakkiel's Avatar
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    Here's a simplified model to help understand what we mean by chain them..

    Say you have 1 damage reduction talents that lasts 5 seconds and has a 25 second cd. Now by spending 6 points in a talent you can add 4 more versions of that talent. While they may do the same thing, they each last 5 seconds, and each have the same cd. That means by casting them as the previous one drops you essentially end up with a damage reduct for the full 25 seconds.

    Riftstalker is a little more complicated, especially w/ the bard/bladedancer talents being used. You need to keep up buffs, other combo abils, etc. While I havent had a chance to test this on beta (Was trying out mage) I would assume Rift Guard rarely makes it to the next 5-point cast of it even just straight combo building toward it, let alone rotating other things in. This makes Rift Barrier extremely useful to keep a reduction up as close to 100% of the time as possible.

    Too long didn't listen version:
    Use plane shifting abilities when Rift Guard shield is down.
    Earth licks her dayburnt wounds - pouring out the sweetest dew, feeding our hungry eyes with images of fallen angels.
    Seven stones of silver, a crown for you and me. The lover's words of sin and pleasure the chains that let us see.
    The tree of good and evil, the snakes that crawl from path to path. All of them are with us here to whisper songs of lust and wrath.
    Farewell to daylight, hail to the hallowed night. Spread out your wings, the sun is dead and gone.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkiel View Post
    Here's a simplified model to help understand what we mean by chain them..

    Say you have 1 damage reduction talents that lasts 5 seconds and has a 25 second cd. Now by spending 6 points in a talent you can add 4 more versions of that talent. While they may do the same thing, they each last 5 seconds, and each have the same cd. That means by casting them as the previous one drops you essentially end up with a damage reduct for the full 25 seconds.

    Riftstalker is a little more complicated, especially w/ the bard/bladedancer talents being used. You need to keep up buffs, other combo abils, etc. While I havent had a chance to test this on beta (Was trying out mage) I would assume Rift Guard rarely makes it to the next 5-point cast of it even just straight combo building toward it, let alone rotating other things in. This makes Rift Barrier extremely useful to keep a reduction up as close to 100% of the time as possible.

    Too long didn't listen version:
    Use plane shifting abilities when Rift Guard shield is down.

    Key point in your post:

    "I havent had a chance to test this on beta"

    Because it is simply not true. Rift barrier in 5 mans tends to survive whole 30 sec as for raids...
    Quick aproximation: Boss cannot do more damage then tank hp in less then 5-6 sec, other wise this goes back to WTLK, where the tank mechanics were HEAL THE TANK NOW!. IF that is the case we have a while other problem on our hands.

    So if boss does rogue HP in damage every 6 seconds (not counting dodging/parry) Then on average Rift Guard should last over 20 seconds, which is more then enough to refresh it and put another 60 sec buff in between)
    Last edited by Deathfairy; 02-08-2011 at 09:28 AM.

  13. #13
    Telaran Nakkiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathfairy View Post
    Key point in your post:

    "I havent had a chance to test this on beta"

    Because it is simply not true. Rift barrier in 5 mans tends to survive whole 30 sec as for raids...
    Quick aproximation: Boss cannot do more damage then tank hp in less then 5-6 sec, other wise this goes back to WTLK, where the tank mechanics were HEAL THE TANK NOW!. IF that is the case we have a while other problem on our hands.

    So if boss does rogue HP in damage every 6 seconds (not counting dodging/parry) Then on average Rift Guard should last over 20 seconds, which is more then enough to refresh it and put another 60 sec buff in between)
    While I have no way of actually verifying whether that is true, at the very least it will take 5 combo points initially to get the first shield up. With my build Riff can be used for that, but then it can't be used for False Blade, Coda of Cowardice, or Guarded Steel. It takes quite awhile to get all of those up, and at the very least Rift Barrier is worth it just until You can get them all up and then build points for Rift Guard.

    I also hear single mob boss fights aren't the only things in the game you need to tank.. and you do know this isn't WoW.... WTF @ Wrath of the Fail King reference.
    Earth licks her dayburnt wounds - pouring out the sweetest dew, feeding our hungry eyes with images of fallen angels.
    Seven stones of silver, a crown for you and me. The lover's words of sin and pleasure the chains that let us see.
    The tree of good and evil, the snakes that crawl from path to path. All of them are with us here to whisper songs of lust and wrath.
    Farewell to daylight, hail to the hallowed night. Spread out your wings, the sun is dead and gone.

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