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Thread: *Bard* What we need!

  1. #1
    Telaran Sixshade's Avatar
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    Default *Bard* What we need!

    Hello all!

    Through extensive testing and playing my bard as a purist spec, there is one problem Im seeing with the build:

    No ability to twist kite.

    For those who do not know what the original bard class from EQ is (also the first MMO to incorporate the class effectively) and what twisting is i'll explain, rather, ill suggest

    Twisting makes it so you can twist several songs keeping a steady rotation and not missing a note, no pun intended.

    Twist kiting was being able to twist your movespeed song, while twisting DoT's and DD's along with a slowing song, effectively kiting a chasing mob(s) and being able to win.

    This game simply doesnt have the means to do so, which is good and bad imo.

    Simply put, we need the ability to run around, twisting songs. It would be nice instead of having to stand still while channeling a DoT, DD, Slow, Stun, Regen etc. Songs should be allowed to be played while moving!

    Overall though the purist class has been alot of fun and almost overpowered in a sense! (At 14 I soloed an entire Fire Rift and got the bonus stages, screenshots are somewhere, ill have to dig them up!

    Just my two cents on bards!

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    I tend to disagree with this for the most part. As it is, toe-to-toe the bard is the most self-survivable soul in the rogue calling. There is no need to inherently beef that up by allowing it to be that sturdy on the move.

    The only "songs" that the bard currently has that cannot be played on the move are cadence and the fanfares (long duration buffs) so I don't see how you really have a major playstyle change by adding this "twisting" in that former EQ players seem to dwell on.

    Because of the games inherent design you are already able to somewhat replicate this feat by using multiple souls to get the desired effect. Combinations such as bard/ranger/mm will allow you to hit on the move and provide self-movespeed buffs (in addition to what you get from anthem already) and foe movespeed slows/knockbacks/snares. I don't find it necessary to give those same tools to a bard and instead let them spec into other souls to make them a strong kiter/buffer with increased dps potential.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    I too would enjoy playing the kite role with a bard, however if we could do this then why even bother with any other build it would be insanely OP. It is tough enough for people to kill bard/rifts in the game if we could kite they would be just disgustingly overpowered.

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    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy4420 View Post
    I too would enjoy playing the kite role with a bard, however if we could do this then why even bother with any other build it would be insanely OP. It is tough enough for people to kill bard/rifts in the game if we could kite they would be just disgustingly overpowered.
    I love bards, by far my favorite soul in rift. I will have to agree with this statement tho. We bards are already strong, very strong. If we had the ability to kite they would nerf us into oblivion. I vote we dont ask for any changes to bard and maybe we will stay as powerful as we are.

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    Telaran Sixshade's Avatar
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    While I agree, to some extent with what you guys are saying, the traditional "Bard singing on the run" is still a very good idea. If it were possible, there would just need to be some nerfs to damage from certain skills.

    For whomever said something about speccing into "other souls" you largely missed the point of a purist build. Means I go 51 points into Bard tree and take the two other souls for their base offerings. No points in them (other than the 15 for utility from other tress like Assassin for the stealth and improved stealth). Before you try and discount it as being sub optimal, it isnt. Purist builds in rift are just as viable and on par with multiple souls, it just comes down to play style. You either spec hard into your class or you dont, end result is the same, if your a good player, your a good player.

    To each their own though! Just glad the class has finally made its way back into the mainstream in an MMO. That and a real Necro. Rift is boss.

  6. #6
    Telaran Palerider's Avatar
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    Default Pure Bard

    While I do not agree with the OP for the suggested Kiting ability, As I don't have any issues with moving while playing my songs. I do have a suggestion of my own.

    Now since Bards do a ton of healing and buffing, and I know this has never been in a folklore of a Bard's rapport; but I would love to see the Bard's 51 point ability be a rez. As much as people may disagree with this, I do believe this would be ideal for those Bards wanting to main heal for a 5 man group or play as an active supporting class to any raid. I know Mages and Clerics already have a rez but since the Bard is awesome at their job I think it's time to add in their list of abilities a rez to compliment their songbook.

    We could call it "Songs of Praise" It would be a Out of Combat ability of course. Or we could have a Battle Rez ability called "Uplifting Songs of Praise" and have it as an upgradeable ability to the 1st.

    I just feel strongly about this and hope others would see this through. Remember this would be for those only playing a pure Bard call. A complete 51 points. Level 48 and 50 abilities.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Palerider; 02-07-2011 at 07:35 PM.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    Its very very easy to kite as bard, you just have to use other abilities besides cadence when kiting...

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    Ascendant MopDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixshade View Post
    While I agree, to some extent with what you guys are saying, the traditional "Bard singing on the run" is still a very good idea. If it were possible, there would just need to be some nerfs to damage from certain skills.

    For whomever said something about speccing into "other souls" you largely missed the point of a purist build. Means I go 51 points into Bard tree and take the two other souls for their base offerings. No points in them (other than the 15 for utility from other tress like Assassin for the stealth and improved stealth). Before you try and discount it as being sub optimal, it isnt. Purist builds in rift are just as viable and on par with multiple souls, it just comes down to play style. You either spec hard into your class or you dont, end result is the same, if your a good player, your a good player.

    To each their own though! Just glad the class has finally made its way back into the mainstream in an MMO. That and a real Necro. Rift is boss.
    I see no reason for 51 points in PvP, yea for PvE but not PvP no more then 44 I see for the Ohh **** heal.
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  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixshade View Post
    No ability to twist kite.

    For those who do not know what the original bard class from EQ is (also the first MMO to incorporate the class effectively) and what twisting is i'll explain, rather, ill suggest
    Oh ! twist, was awesome in EQ1, loved it.
    The bard gameplay is based on cadence and i was disapointed too when i read "channeling". So the rift bard is a static one.
    Like Gulain said a bard must use skills and abilities from other soul to have combo points and play "hit and run".
    So cadence is not the basement but a skill to use when you want to help to heal more.
    Less fun for us, but maybe it's overpowered.

    You forgot something in twist explanations : in EQ1 when you turn off a song it wasn't instant effect. Songs was based on tick mechanic, so the player turned off song during a tick. He turned on another song, and the previous song tick at the same moment. So we applied several song effect at the same time.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    i have no problem with the bard class, i actually really enjoy the playstyle with the souls i chose.

    i went bard/assassin/marksman

    i can rack up a quick 5 combo points, i have incapacitate, stealth (not improved sadly) the poisons are nice- buffing dmg and +crit, and i can attack successfully at melee or ranged and be able to down mobs without trouble.

    Typical scenario- ranged- Quick shot x2>cadence>powerchord>wrath

    melee- power chord>puncture> coda of distress>powerchord>savage strike x2>final blow
    or if im lazy just power chord>puncture>savage strike>final blow

    if i pull more mobs than one or two, ill toss in some coda of restoration with 5 points since i build them quickly.

    i like it with those three souls- i tested out a bunch of different souls, but they fit my playstyle best, as i see bards as a scout class- being able to not only buff/debuff, but be able to save the day in a pinch, ranged or melee

    i played a bard in EQ1 and it was fun, but at the same time, it was highly annoying at times when you just wanted to chill out and breathe, especially when youre twisting like 8 songs for dmg,buff,heal,regen,debuff. This class of bard with how i set it up really allows me to be interactive, and also do multiples of things from ranged, melee, healing, debuffing, buffing,etc with ease.
    Last edited by Ascensi; 02-07-2011 at 10:52 PM.

  11. #11
    snc
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    I think this game has way too much run-n-gun in it already. I think it's pretty good the way it is.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy4420 View Post
    I too would enjoy playing the kite role with a bard, however if we could do this then why even bother with any other build it would be insanely OP. It is tough enough for people to kill bard/rifts in the game if we could kite they would be just disgustingly overpowered.

    That is not really true. I have been killed, along with other bards, in the upper level warfronts. If any high DPS gets to you, you are as good as dead.
    Last edited by AvdielZion; 02-08-2011 at 03:57 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaine13x7 View Post
    Its very very easy to kite as bard, you just have to use other abilities besides cadence when kiting...

    What other abilities do you use, I am finding it very hard to kite, high DPS classes, and it seem I die to them constantly.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by snc View Post
    I think this game has way too much run-n-gun in it already. I think it's pretty good the way it is.
    I dont think we have to stand still so melee can kill at will!! They need to run after us, or slow/root/stun us.

  15. #15
    Telaran Rokenn's Avatar
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    I'm really enjoying the bard implementation here on Rift. Twist-kiting was OP in EQ and would be extremely OP in the current bard implementation here. What I am missing though are utility songs. Things like a real run-speed song (20% does not cut it), water breathing, levitation, etc. Other than that I'd say Rift has done an excellent job on bringing the Bard class back to life.

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