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Thread: My impression of the saboteur (20)

  1. #1
    General of Telara
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    Default My impression of the saboteur (20)

    This class is dumb. Ill just get that out of the way right now.

    Tap tap tap tap tap BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

    SO the damage is ridiculous. 5 charge detonate = mob is basically dead or close to dead. In PvP shrapnel charge in black garden was a lawl. I played 6 games and was top damage by 30% each time. Everyone in that WF clumps up and nobody seems capable of realising that im about to detonate them and everyone near them for 250-500 damage each. Adhesive bomb basically made me immune to melee.

    So to put it plainly the class is out of control OP. Ive tried Ranger, Assassin, Marksman, and Nightblade as primary souls and none of them hold a candle to saboteur effectiveness. At level 20 my own 5 point detonates are critting hard enough for me to 1 shot myself. Combined with the fact that i can set up all 5 charges on a mob without pulling aggro its like effortless PvE leveling.

    There is a drawback.

    By level 20 i was prepared to kill myself rather than continue to play the class. As with most OP classes in any MMO, they are stupid simple. Anyone with a higher than room temperature IQ is going to be bored out of their minds with Saboteur well before they get to the level cap.

    Anyway i expect this class is scheduled for a nerf piledriver before release. I wouldn't plan on making it your primary soul when the game goes live. The devs have got to know something is ridiculous about this soul, and i expect that once they look into it they will knee-jerk and crush the soul into near uselessness.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Trojanguy's Avatar
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    I had it as a 3rd soul in my MM/Ranger/Sab build and I never really used the Sab charges/detonate because it seemed to me like they didn't do as much damage (based on the tooltips) as my MM abilities did. But you can plant charges on a mob w/o aggroing them?
    Proud member of Unrepentant: The pants-optional Defiant PvE guild on Gnarlwood

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojanguy View Post
    I had it as a 3rd soul in my MM/Ranger/Sab build and I never really used the Sab charges/detonate because it seemed to me like they didn't do as much damage (based on the tooltips) as my MM abilities did. But you can plant charges on a mob w/o aggroing them?
    Theres a passive called silent setup that allows this. To the original topic I agree there needs to be some change to the sab. Right now there's no reason to not be laying charges. Traps and bombs are completely over shadowed. A suggestion would be to rework bomb or charges so that one of them is for debuffs and the other for dps. For traps I would increase the damage and allow for multiple traps to be layed at the same time so that you could set up a real "trap" for enemies.

    As far as being over powered I disagree. Your pvp example just shows you were playing against people who didn't know what they were doing if they are going to bunch up like that. Though some sort of visual clue for shrapnel charge would be nice since the other players right now dont know if someone is having charges built up on them.
    Last edited by Occam; 02-07-2011 at 11:24 AM.

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    Shadowlander Ajaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonsensei436 View Post
    This class is dumb..
    I played saboteur this weekend (Beta 6), got to level 22. This was my first experiment with the tree, Iíve only played ranger/Marks to level 8 or so, the rest of my time was spent with a melee warrior.

    I donít think I agree that the class was ďdumbĒ, I know that I had a great time experimenting with the combinations of the charges along with the bombs and traps that can be deployed.

    I understand that there is a tendency to say something is boring when a set up is required for special to execute with full potential, like setting 5 charges prior to detonate. But I found this to be true with the warrior class as well.

    I had a great time playing Saboteur and look forward to playing it again in the next beta. I see the uses for it in PvE and PvP. Lowering the armor of the target (boss) as a raid utility has some great uses.

  5. #5
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    The only reason you find it boring, is because you appear to play it very simplistic, I myself have a lot of fun on my sab.

    Maybe you're the one with the IQ tangenting room temperature?
    Xatoshi 29 rogue -saboteur/nightblade

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajaxx View Post
    I played saboteur this weekend (Beta 6), got to level 22. This was my first experiment with the tree, Iíve only played ranger/Marks to level 8 or so, the rest of my time was spent with a melee warrior.

    I donít think I agree that the class was ďdumbĒ, I know that I had a great time experimenting with the combinations of the charges along with the bombs and traps that can be deployed.

    I understand that there is a tendency to say something is boring when a set up is required for special to execute with full potential, like setting 5 charges prior to detonate. But I found this to be true with the warrior class as well.

    I had a great time playing Saboteur and look forward to playing it again in the next beta. I see the uses for it in PvE and PvP. Lowering the armor of the target (boss) as a raid utility has some great uses.
    I agree with him. I really enjoy the setup and the big bang. I wish there was more of a visual effect when you detonate but oh well. It is just satisfying to see a mob drop in one go. Or the race to get charges in place while the last mob is attacking you and wondering who will win.

    Another example against the overpowered argument in smiths haven i was around level 13-15 with my sab and if I aggro'd more than 2 guys it was pretty certain I was going to die. However with my necro/warlock 4-5 guys is my usual limit at the same level. It might just be I am more experienced but while it takes longer to kill an individual my mage survives a lot better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajaxx View Post

    I had a great time playing Saboteur and look forward to playing it again in the next beta. I see the uses for it in PvE and PvP. Lowering the armor of the target (boss) as a raid utility has some great uses.
    Don't forget ember charge. You can basicly keep a 24% armor reduc PLUS a 12% damage increase debuff on a boss throughout a fight. That's helluva nice.
    Xatoshi 29 rogue -saboteur/nightblade

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    Shield of Telara
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    Sabo is fine, the other classes are just to weak right now and need to be brought on par

    We dont even have valor gear yet and the other rogue classes are doing pathetic damage, that tells me that sabo is fine and the other classes need to be buffed

    If they nerf sabo then you mineaswell just be a dps healer, since none of the other rogues can even do as much damage as a dps healer, sabo and MM are the only classes that feel like an actually dps class in this game, that and warriors but hello suicide bots

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bejita View Post
    Sabo is fine, the other classes are just to weak right now and need to be brought on par

    We dont even have valor gear yet and the other rogue classes are doing pathetic damage, that tells me that sabo is fine and the other classes need to be buffed

    If they nerf sabo then you mineaswell just be a dps healer, since none of the other rogues can even do as much damage as a dps healer, sabo and MM are the only classes that feel like an actually dps class in this game, that and warriors but hello suicide bots
    Melee rogues definitely need a little love I teamed with a like level assasin in scarlet gorge, his main use was to incapacitate any extra mob we pulled until i could get around to killing it.

  10. #10
    Champion rich1051414's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajaxx View Post
    I played saboteur this weekend (Beta 6), got to level 22. This was my first experiment with the tree, Iíve only played ranger/Marks to level 8 or so, the rest of my time was spent with a melee warrior.

    I donít think I agree that the class was ďdumbĒ, I know that I had a great time experimenting with the combinations of the charges along with the bombs and traps that can be deployed.

    I understand that there is a tendency to say something is boring when a set up is required for special to execute with full potential, like setting 5 charges prior to detonate. But I found this to be true with the warrior class as well.

    I had a great time playing Saboteur and look forward to playing it again in the next beta. I see the uses for it in PvE and PvP. Lowering the armor of the target (boss) as a raid utility has some great uses.
    naw, the class is definitely currently broken. i have played MM for 90% of my experience, then i decided to duel another rogue at lv31, he was a sab. he started the fight stealthed, he casted last hope on me, stacked 5 charges detonated, i was left at 5% hp instantly. So i thought, hmm, is this class broke, or is he really good. so i went and built a sab, with 0 experience with the class i dueled someone, and won flawlessly, didnt take a single bit of damage. This class is definitely broken, and before i saw this, i defended them, something really needs to change.

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  11. #11
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    The problem is allowing charges to be set from 30m(talented). I look at 2 things near my character in pvp; numbers, and people. Quick glances is all I ever do while following a battle, fully zoomed out. The first thing seen as far as dmg in 1-2 min is 2 numbers, one being 200+ and the other 850+. That would leave me with around 500hp. Sure there are things to counter that, mostly a prayer that a healer saw it or a pot. It's the unstealthed sneak attack that I find most people have a problem with.

    Solutions:
    1. Shorten the distance that charges can be applied. Why is this not melee distance to start?

    2. Applying charges does more then just put a debuff on you. Each charge doing 20% weapon dmg would get your attention.

    3. Change the Detonate Finisher to fall in line with a support class. Lower the dmg by 25%. Add 10% reduction on healing taken/one second per charge, starting at 20% / 3 seconds for one pt and ending with 60% reduction for 7 seconds at 5 charges.

    Any one of those things would work.

    I will add that I played mostly as Ranger/Assassin/Saboteur. I placed only 2 points into Sab to get Frag bomb (which they nerfed). I fought several Sabs 1v1 and they seemed to build 5 charges much faster then I could get to 5 pts with Ranger skills. Don't know what the deal was with that. If I was killed with detonate I would often just start spamming the other team with charges/detonate to get even.

    I feel that the saboteur is and should be a support tree, not a main dps tree. Placing Charges and timing the Detonate is crucial to providing the burst to drop players with pocket healers or even the healers themselves. Should the Sab be able to take almost everyone from full life to 40% or less hp in one hit?( i know, technically 6). The problem is the surprise combined with the high dmg output.

  12. #12
    Telaran Synns's Avatar
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    My only experience with the class was last night in the WF......It was one of those big 10 on 10 battles at one of the flags, I was using my tank build (Pally,Void,WL) so I was sitting a little over 2900 Hp at 29. Cracking heads on the frontline and we had just, I thought, wiped a group of the Guardians...I look at my HP all good, well over 2/3 then BLAM dead.........WTF, behind the stone pillar I see the Sab running away giggling.......

    Sooo, of course I am a little jaded on my opinion, but I will smile a little inside when the bat catches up to them....


    V/R,

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1051414 View Post
    naw, the class is definitely currently broken. i have played MM for 90% of my experience, then i decided to duel another rogue at lv31, he was a sab. he started the fight stealthed, he casted last hope on me, stacked 5 charges detonated, i was left at 5% hp instantly. So i thought, hmm, is this class broke, or is he really good. so i went and built a sab, with 0 experience with the class i dueled someone, and won flawlessly, didnt take a single bit of damage. This class is definitely broken, and before i saw this, i defended them, something really needs to change.
    Sorry, but this game isn't balanced around 1v1, and it shouldn't be.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1051414 View Post
    naw, the class is definitely currently broken. i have played MM for 90% of my experience, then i decided to duel another rogue at lv31, he was a sab. he started the fight stealthed, he casted last hope on me, stacked 5 charges detonated, i was left at 5% hp instantly. So i thought, hmm, is this class broke, or is he really good. so i went and built a sab, with 0 experience with the class i dueled someone, and won flawlessly, didnt take a single bit of damage. This class is definitely broken, and before i saw this, i defended them, something really needs to change.
    What does last hope hope do? I am not familiar with that skill. Did you mean last stand?

    I can see pure sabotuers very easily being able to win any 1v1 matchup. If against a melee class lay entangling trap build rainbow charges while the guy is rooted then just rapid setup and detonate again, depending on how fast you can click detonate/rapidsetup/charge/detonate they may not be able to even react before they are dead. On mages its the same process except you throw chocking gas bomb to start.

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    Champion rich1051414's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darklcd View Post
    Sorry, but this game isn't balanced around 1v1, and it shouldn't be.
    if the simply made charges do 5 damage it would fix the class, seems like a buff but it isnt. it would allow you to notice your getting charged if your paying attention and prevent you from getting charged while sapped. i would be happy with that :P

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