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Thread: Rogue Tank Viable?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Rogue Tank Viable?

    I was looking through several pages to see if i can find some more info on rogue tanking. I know in beta 5 there where more tanks, and this time around not so much (from the lack of posts i presume there where not).

    I was doing rift/blade/bard Linked here.

    Now starting out from lvl 1 to 10 was pretty cool since i put most of my points in rift to be able to get hit more. I just hit 12 when the servers went down and didn't get a chance to hit 17ish to run the IT instance.

    Is anyone successfully running a really good tanking build at the moment or did they get nerfed and told that rogues can't tank?

    Thanks Guys

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyxius View Post
    I was looking through several pages to see if i can find some more info on rogue tanking. I know in beta 5 there where more tanks, and this time around not so much (from the lack of posts i presume there where not).

    I was doing rift/blade/bard Linked here.

    Now starting out from lvl 1 to 10 was pretty cool since i put most of my points in rift to be able to get hit more. I just hit 12 when the servers went down and didn't get a chance to hit 17ish to run the IT instance.

    Is anyone successfully running a really good tanking build at the moment or did they get nerfed and told that rogues can't tank?

    Thanks Guys
    i got 4k hp, -30% damage on demand, -30% damage on being crit, +50% armour, i heal the entire group constantly while tanking pve/pvp, i buff everyone in the group alot. prolly the strongest pvp group class in the game atm. im thinking with all this MTing is viable. if it wasnt why would they give me a taunt?

  3. #3
    Telaran Mysza's Avatar
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    I have seen some try and tank. Some were great. the rest...

    I do believe it can be done. I also believe it will require a bit more skill then some of the warrior tank builds.
    Last edited by Mysza; 02-07-2011 at 10:16 AM.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by labotimy View Post
    i got 4k hp, -30% damage on demand, -30% damage on being crit, +50% armour, i heal the entire group constantly while tanking pve/pvp, i buff everyone in the group alot. prolly the strongest pvp group class in the game atm. im thinking with all this MTing is viable. if it wasnt why would they give me a taunt?
    i would like to know what soul u are using to heal the entire grp while tanking? unless ur doing it in bard in which case might be fun for pvp but u cant MT like that in pve

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    ok i tanked FAE, DD and FC as riftstalker and i have been complimented on how smooth the runs were compared to warrior tanks, maybe they were just bad i dunno but i found it very hard at first to tank, there is the armor finisher and the dodge one u need to have up always or u get hit pretty hard, However, after getting used to it i must say i have made tanking my main, dont get me wrong its not for everyone and as we dont wear plate u need to have pretty nice gear to pull it off, but if u like a challenge and can put in the practise then i deffo think this is a great tree for those who put in the time.

    have no issues tanking any content so far (just got 32 before shutdown) aoe aggro is good single target aggro is good but once u got ur 3 finishers up (armor, dodge and shield) then i dunno i just feel as if there is another finisher lacking i just spam didge and armor again for the dmg even though my buff doesnt need refreshed

    on a side note chloros and rifts dont go well in pugs, u need to know them and they need to understand u, when we pull it takes us maybe 5-10 secs to get up all our buffs (on a fresh pull) chloros are not the quickest to get into healing, normally takes a few secs to get into the rythem and get all buffs up which means they arent in full healing mode when u are at ur most vulnerable, so communication is needed when partying with a chloro to make sure thigs dont turn bad.

    to summarise- Not a tree for everyone (yes i know rogue tanking sounds cool) but it takes alot of work and there is alot of things to fail on, prepare to get yelled at while u learn this tree, and if u dont tell ur healers the most dmg u take will be on the pull, then if u die its ur fault not theirs- communication is the key here.

    this is a hard soul to learn and an even harder one to master, i havent had any issues tanking this beta and i still can see alot of areas i can improve upon.

    Flowerpot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombright View Post
    i would like to know what soul u are using to heal the entire grp while tanking? unless ur doing it in bard in which case might be fun for pvp but u cant MT like that in pve
    explain to me why you cant main tank with only 21 points in rift? owait you can. therefor bard/rift MT is viable. you only need 25 pts in bard to offheal effectively considering your allready tanking. in pvp this setup is absolutely dominant since it will usually take many people to take you down, and you buff and heal the entire raid so effectively. in PVE the bard compliments the rift very well since you have nifty lil abils like Riff which lets you instantly put up 4k shield. the fact that you increase your healers effectiveness with not only buffs but also a 30% increased incoming heal spec, well thats pretty boss in pve if you ask me. yet to find a boss in beta that a good healer couldnt keep me up on. running 25 bard, 21 rift, 0 blade.

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    Telaran Scayth's Avatar
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    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0tRco0z.gIzo0o

    That's the tanking build I use. I have ~4900 hp when buffed and I've tanked FC once and KB twice with zero problems. And to the poster who claims Riftstalker tanking is difficult to master - it isn't. Takes about 10 minutes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scayth View Post
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0tRco0z.gIzo0o

    That's the tanking build I use. I have ~4900 hp when buffed and I've tanked FC once and KB twice with zero problems. And to the poster who claims Riftstalker tanking is difficult to master - it isn't. Takes about 10 minutes.
    honestly you should drop rift barrier and dump more pts into bard. something like http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...00Rk..xGt0z0co

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    Telaran Scayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labotimy View Post
    honestly you should drop rift barrier and dump more pts into bard. something like http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...00Rk..xGt0z0co
    That build may be viable for you, but I like mine. And rift barrier helps at the start of the fight while I'm building cps for rift guard. I may go deeper into bard in later levels, but right now, this suits me fine.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scayth View Post
    That build may be viable for you, but I like mine. And rift barrier helps at the start of the fight while I'm building cps for rift guard. I may go deeper into bard in later levels, but right now, this suits me fine.
    you dont need rift barrier if you have "riff" instant 5 combo.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by labotimy View Post
    explain to me why you cant main tank with only 21 points in rift? owait you can. therefor bard/rift MT is viable. you only need 25 pts in bard to offheal effectively considering your allready tanking. in pvp this setup is absolutely dominant since it will usually take many people to take you down, and you buff and heal the entire raid so effectively. in PVE the bard compliments the rift very well since you have nifty lil abils like Riff which lets you instantly put up 4k shield. the fact that you increase your healers effectiveness with not only buffs but also a 30% increased incoming heal spec, well thats pretty boss in pve if you ask me. yet to find a boss in beta that a good healer couldnt keep me up on. running 25 bard, 21 rift, 0 blade.
    i agree that hybris spec can be used for tanking but having 0 in blade u give up 10% dodge + some hit + a dex buff + twin strike

    and u gain some offhealing (minor dmg and threat from cadence) some motifs only on 15 secs or so uptime and an end buff

    now thats all well and good but as i have a bard friend constantly in my grp, the motifs dont stack, the anthems dont stack or fanfares, so all i get from that spec is some minor healign which isnt needed as i have abard in grp already.

    so yes for pug grp ur spec is viable but for overall MTing i feel mainly rift with some points in blade and maybe 5 in bard for the hp is a better spec, if u got no bard in grp then who knows ur spec may be good

    but for me personally it would be a waste to run that spec

    and for the guy who reckong rift soul can be mastered in 10 mins, u and me aside, make everyone play a rift in DD or FC and see the % of grps that actually finish the instance

    just cause u managed to get it quickly doesnt mean its an easy soul or that everyone will get it

    id even go as far as to say not taking that 10% dodge from blade is very bad IMO, u probably only have about 10% dodge from gear and i can assure u the difference between 10 and 20% is huge not to mention the fact that any offhealing u do as bard is nothing compared to the extra 10% of the time ur gonna get hit, when mobs can hit as hard as 1.2k (the big guys in FC) id rather have that extra 10% over some offhealing anyday, and as i keep an an insane amount of aggro normally people dont get hit but me which mean cadence is only effective on bosses and if i have to channel it all the time i am not as mobile as i should be. in short yes its viable to be hybrid bard or rift/bard but untill end game where u get so much dodge the 10% from blade is not so good anymore (40-50% dodge isnt as big of a deal as 10-20%) then i will defo be sticking to rift/blade/bard(5)

  12. #12
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    I personally don't like the bard/riftstalker tank builds I see out there. I understand what they try to accomplish in most cases with solid self healing values (at least on weak content) but I just fail to see how their threat and more importantly their mitigation will hold up to a rift/bd primary with minor bard investment in a raid environment.

    You are essentially sacrificing 16% avoidance at endgame (11% if your bard build takes 5 pts in quick reflexes for 5% dodge), a 100% strike back on evasion, 15% dex increase (AP, crit + dodge) and extra combo points on abilities following an evasion to pick up self heals (that may or may not be overwritten anyway). I already find that while I don't have significant threat problems, a warrior tank severely outproduces me on threat if he wants to. That is with me using rift barrier over rift guard so I don't need to spend finishers producing 0 threat... If you rely on cadence heal spam which has no additional threat component (and the heal doesn't appear to give significant aggro) I don't see how your damage (and therefore threat) will even be comparable.

    I was initially an opponent to rift barrier but I gave it a try out in this past beta and it appeared to work quite well. I still think for endgame I would get more out of the rift guard so next go around i'm going to try out both and see if I can really tell a difference between the 2 (I expect that rift guard should be better mitigation but at a cost of threat production). I'm trying to see how I can incorporate that into a level 35 build as opposed to barrier.

    I personally used this build last beta to tank and never even went below 50% on any fights in FC (never got a chance to group for KB) Riftstalker using barrier

    I think that I'll try something closer to Riftstalker using Rift Guard for my rift guard spec.

    Either way both of those builds have higher damage avoidance and higher threat output than the bard builds that Labotimy seems to favor.

    edit: fixed a few typos
    Last edited by gulain; 02-07-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...z.xGtbtoco0z.L

    this is the build i am runnign at the moment and i thin its working well so far, need to get a few more into blade dancer for the counter attack and hit and 1 more in bard for the hp, but overall very hapy so far

  14. #14
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulain View Post
    I personally don't like the bard/riftstalker tank builds I see out there. I understand what they try to accomplish in most cases with solid self healing values (at least on weak content) but I just fail to see how their threat and more importantly their mitigation will hold up to a rift/bd primary with minor bard investment in a raid environment.

    You are essentially sacrificing 16% avoidance at endgame (5% if your bard build takes 5 pts in quick reflexes), a 100% strike back on evasion, 15% dex increase (AP, crit + dodge) and extra combo points on abilities following an evasion to pick up self heals (that may or may not be overwritten anyway). I already find that while I don't have significant threat problems, a warrior tank severely outproduces me on threat if he wants to. That is with me using rift barrier over rift guard so I don't need to spend finishers producing 0 threat... If you rely on cadence heal spam which has no additional threat component (and the heal doesn't appear to give significant aggro) I don't see how your damage (and therefore threat) will even be comparable.

    I was initially an opponent to rift barrier but I gave it a try out in this past beta and it appeared to work quite well. I still think for endgame I would get more out of the rift guard so next go around i'm going to try out both and see if I can really tell a difference between the 2 (I expect that rift guard should be better mitigation but at a cost of threat production). I'm trying to see how I can incorporate that into a level 35 build as opposed to barrier.

    I personally used this build last beta to tank and never even went below 50% on any fights in FC (never got a chance to group for KB) Riftstalker using barrier

    I think that I'll try something closer to Riftstalker using Rift Guard for my rift guard spec.

    Either way both of those builds have higher damage avoidance and higher threat output than the bard builds that Labotimy seems to favor.
    at level 35 your gonna have 500+ less hp, 300 less armour, no offhealing capabilities, +3% to be hit and crit, you wont have the insane motif buffs so less heals dps and mitigation overall for the group, id say its a tossup because the bard buffs are pretty good for tanking. in my opinion going for the parry and dex you have less survivalbility then my build. from a pure tanking perspective the fact that endgame bards have so much more HP, armour, and buffs in general i think it will more then make up for 16% parry and 15% dex.

  15. #15
    Telaran Dreznahel's Avatar
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    I think the beauty of this game's class system is that it gives you more than one way to skin a cat. A game that allows you to succeed without the absolute "to the last point" build is a game that lets its players have fun, while still getting the job done.

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