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Thread: CP water fragments or AP?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Cenderze's Avatar
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    Default CP water fragments or AP?

    Hello,

    Is there a definite answer whether CP water fragments (T3) or AP fragments (T2) are BiS? Ive seen some people claiming the CP ones are better and some claiming that only Death and Fire should be CP primary.

    I have very low CP (2k ish) at the moment. Found some CP frags with dex/str and endurance which I am thinking of replacing my AP and Dex fragments with (cant remember secondary stats).

    Are there any updated stat weights?
    Garash@Zaviel
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  2. #2
    Rift Chaser qUiXui's Avatar
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    It depends on the remainder of your gear (or rather, their stats), but in general the rule is the better your gear the better CP gets, since you dont get any from other sources. I havent done the exact math for rogues since Trion is actively killing any desire for twinking and thus my rogue and primalist are benched, but here is an educated guess:

    At Infusion 15, T2 yields 384 AP, while T3 yields 477 CP. This is a 0.8 ratio, meaning at an (AP normalized) weight of 0.8 for CP they are equal, anything higher and the CP T3 becomes superior. For mages, this point is reached with some TD gear plus one of the higher purple stages of the eternal weapon, so assuming its somewhat similar for rogues this would mean once your gear reaches current endgame, the CP one is better.
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  3. #3
    Plane Touched Cenderze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qUiXui View Post
    It depends on the remainder of your gear (or rather, their stats), but in general the rule is the better your gear the better CP gets, since you dont get any from other sources. I havent done the exact math for rogues since Trion is actively killing any desire for twinking and thus my rogue and primalist are benched, but here is an educated guess:

    At Infusion 15, T2 yields 384 AP, while T3 yields 477 CP. This is a 0.8 ratio, meaning at an (AP normalized) weight of 0.8 for CP they are equal, anything higher and the CP T3 becomes superior. For mages, this point is reached with some TD gear plus one of the higher purple stages of the eternal weapon, so assuming its somewhat similar for rogues this would mean once your gear reaches current endgame, the CP one is better.
    Thanks for an thorough explanation. My gear is not that great at the moment, but to get to the stage mages need to be before CP T3 becomes the better choice is not that many lucky drops away so Id presume its better to invest in these frags immediately instead of upgrading the AP ones and then the CP ones afterwards.

    Out of curiosity, how do you collect data for determining the stat weights? I like conducting regressions as much as the next one but collecting enough data using a bunch of different gear seems rather offputting.
    Garash@Zaviel
    <Temple of Light>

    (4/4 IRotP ~ 4/4 TD NM)
    (1/3 BoS)

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Poshy's Avatar
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    I go for CP on t1-t4. Life is AP and Earth Dex for main stats.

    Specific to water frags any t3 with CP that has a secondary of dex,ap,or str would likely be better than the t2 AP. This is all relative since the best comparison would be at max infusion.

    You will notice your dps increase significantly with CP upgrades, more than AP until you get pretty high CP.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser qUiXui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenderze View Post
    Out of curiosity, how do you collect data for determining the stat weights? I like conducting regressions as much as the next one but collecting enough data using a bunch of different gear seems rather offputting.
    Rifts damage function is linear, so you dont need to do all that much, 2 sample points (though per skill) are enough.
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  6. #6
    Plane Touched Dimples's Avatar
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    I use this: RIFT - Fragment Spec Viewer. Which is a GoogleDocs Spreadsheet.
    Note: There's no way I could ever remember that URL, and when I bounce between a couple dozen+ workstations/servers here at home, remembering if I added it as a favorite to all of them simply doesn't occur, it's simpler to remember http://tinyurl.com/fragments101.

    It contains a breakdown of all the Fragments, by Element, by Stat and the points for each level of Infusion. It even gives you the estimated cost while leveling them up. Sorry, but sadly, the Drop-down boxes don't function unless you make a copy of it. Blaim Google, not me. Only Owners/Editors can change the contents when security is enabled. We've been asking for that feature for years. Very simple to make a copy though, and the step-by-step instructions on how to do that are on the first page of the document.

    It also contains a recommended BiS sheet for which type of Fragment (Element and Tier) for each slot, for each class. Where the Best, Better, Good comes from is from the Class Forums section. While I do play all the classes (save Primalist) I play a Warrior mainly. I'm no Pro (decent, but no Pro) at playing the other classes, so I'm relying on the data from those that know their classes better, and I update that section from their data.

    I've not made changes to the formatting lately, though a bunch is planned and being worked on now. But with the proposed changes to Fragments Trion says is forthcoming, I'm hesitant to invest time into additional work, when we have no idea of what those changes to the Fragments are going to be. But for the moment, this gives the data to understand/know what the fragments do.

    Dimps
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  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Poshy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Dimples;5310291]I use this: RIFT - Fragment Spec Viewer. Which is a GoogleDocs Spreadsheet.
    Note: There's no way I could ever remember that URL, and when I bounce between a couple dozen+ workstations/servers here at home, remembering if I added it as a favorite to all of them simply doesn't occur, it's simpler to remember http://tinyurl.com/fragments101.

    It contains a breakdown of all the Fragments, by Element, by Stat and the points for each level of Infusion. It even gives you the estimated cost while leveling them up. Sorry, but sadly, the Drop-down boxes don't function unless you make a copy of it. Blaim Google, not me. Only Owners/Editors can change the contents when security is enabled. We've been asking for that feature for years. Very simple to make a copy though, and the step-by-step instructions on how to do that are on the first page of the document.

    It also contains a recommended BiS sheet for which type of Fragment (Element and Tier) for each slot, for each class. Where the Best, Better, Good comes from is from the Class Forums section. While I do play all the classes (save Primalist) I play a Warrior mainly. I'm no Pro (decent, but no Pro) at playing the other classes, so I'm relying on the data from those that know their classes better, and I update that section from their data.

    I've not made changes to the formatting lately, though a bunch is planned and being worked on now. But with the proposed changes to Fragments Trion says is forthcoming, I'm hesitant to invest time into additional work, when we have no idea of what those changes to the Fragments are going to be. But for the moment, this gives the data to understand/know what the fragments do.

    Dimps[/QUOTEe]

    Thanks. This is a great guide to reference and get a direction. Some things you may want to change based on personal preferance and secondary stats, but for the most part you should be going for your main stat then working for 4/5s hopefully 5/5s.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    hi guys which is the CP cap for level 70?
    isn't better going all CP till cap then?

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Poshy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystifal View Post
    hi guys which is the CP cap for level 70?
    isn't better going all CP till cap then?
    CP softcap is somewhere between 9119-9121 I believe. You may want to account for gedlo curry pots and combat banners if your goal is to reach this cap for raids. Its around 8500 im not sure the exact.

    Reaching the CP cap is pretty hard. You will need to lvl most of your frags. Decent death and fire are hard to come by and it is a huge investment. Ive opened a few hundred mage boxes for death frags and still havent gotten any decent ones. My rogue has 2 caster death frags with cp both lvld to infusion 10, I just cant take these higher without regret. im am slightly below 8k CP currently unbuffed and that has taken some time.

    Also as a rogue it is a little easier with frags since we get 2 death slots.
    Last edited by Poshy; 06-29-2017 at 10:29 PM.

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