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Thread: Sin vs BD

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Poshy's Avatar
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    Default Sin vs BD

    Which do you prefer and which has better results for you?

    Personally Ive been using BD most often, I really like being able to aoe situationally and hold great st dps. I still see everyone else running Sin for melee but im usually running higher dps if our gear is similar. Might just be rotations.

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    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Default assasin 2.0

    Well basically, everyone are running assassin because it's rogues top dps spec atm and is really competitive with other classes who deals +500k dps, so for the sake of highest dps you should reroll sin

    there's a guide for it somewhere in the forums but im too lazy to search atm ill help when back

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    Which do you prefer and which has better results for you?

    Personally Ive been using BD most often, I really like being able to aoe situationally and hold great st dps. I still see everyone else running Sin for melee but im usually running higher dps if our gear is similar. Might just be rotations.
    Assassin is better than BD in single target.

    Rogue (Assassin) is only behind Primalist and Warrior and it's the only spec rogue has currently that can even get close to Primalist and Warriors, and unlike those two, rogues are confined to melee range and has very low burst dps compare to the other two as well, so if you want to do good as a rogue you play Sin, also due to the way poison malice works, makes this spec really terrible for some bosses (eg TD first boss and TD last boss if your raid wide dps is not very good and you hit adds phase, and other stuff), just be mindful.

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    Plane Touched Poshy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    Assassin is better than BD in single target.

    Rogue (Assassin) is only behind Primalist and Warrior and it's the only spec rogue has currently that can even get close to Primalist and Warriors, and unlike those two, rogues are confined to melee range and has very low burst dps compare to the other two as well, so if you want to do good as a rogue you play Sin, also due to the way poison malice works, makes this spec really terrible for some bosses (eg TD first boss and TD last boss if your raid wide dps is not very good and you hit adds phase, and other stuff), just be mindful.
    This is sustained ST dps? So for shorter fights not as much build up for Sin dps since it is lacking burst with the new Sab off soul spec. So for TD specifically I have been doing better with my BD spec, again this is compared to similarly geared rogues using Sin and myself mainly, but for first fight I can go ST or if the adds are grouped I can aoe plus use aoe as a range attack when lava is out until boss is repositioned(this seems better than the sab range), same if I am on the souls for second fight and have to switch targets but this would be the fight where I may do better with Sin, definitely on 3rd fight with void and disconnects (if boss isn't pulled to the white circle I spam aoe which reaches them but my sin has less range) and I interrupt the bird on last boss which is better on my BD spec plus run buffs. I also think I am getting more out of my eternal weapon with BD versus Sin. BD im always at full energy so I constantly have the weapon buff running (for whatever it is worth)

    I am doing slightly more on a dummy with my Sin, but Ill be honest I have trouble keeping the rotation perfect in TD with Sin. Maybe my Sin rotation is wrong but I have gone off the guide and hit the numbers on a dummy.

    Im still pretty new and just playing with these specs. I will keep working on my Sin build, maybe get better output compared to my BD. I had more fun with Sin when it was NB/Rang off souls, I am having alot of fun with BD so it is probably clouding my judgement as well.
    Last edited by Poshy; 04-12-2017 at 02:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    This is sustained ST dps? So for shorter fights not as much build up for Sin dps since it is lacking burst with the new Sab off soul spec. So for TD specifically I have been doing better with my BD spec, again this is compared to similarly geared rogues using Sin and myself mainly, but for first fight I can go ST or if the adds are grouped I can aoe plus use aoe as a range attack when lava is out until boss is repositioned(this seems better than the sab range), same if I am on the souls for second fight and have to switch targets but this would be the fight where I may do better with Sin, definitely on 3rd fight with void and disconnects (if boss isn't pulled to the white circle I spam aoe which reaches them but my sin has less range) and I interrupt the bird on last boss which is better on my BD spec plus run buffs. I also think I am getting more out of my eternal weapon with BD versus Sin. BD im always at full energy so I constantly have the weapon buff running (for whatever it is worth)

    I am doing slightly more on a dummy with my Sin, but Ill be honest I have trouble keeping the rotation perfect in TD with Sin. Maybe my Sin rotation is wrong but I have gone off the guide and hit the numbers on a dummy.

    Im still pretty new and just playing with these specs. I will keep working on my Sin build, maybe get better output compared to my BD. I had more fun with Sin when it was NB/Rang off souls, I am having alot of fun with BD so it is probably clouding my judgement as well.
    BD scales much better with gear, so they get closer and closer DPS-wise as your gear gets better. BD might also do very well in TD because there are quite a few cleave situations.

    On the other hand, if you don't have good gear / fragments, Sin does much higher st dps. I do over 100k more with Sin on my rogue for ST, and I'm not even playing it properly compared to the forum guide. BD might be able to reach places sin can't in melee because of its's aoe, but ranged Sin is still very powerful as long as you have sab charges available, and I believe it can extend up to 30m.

    So really, it just depends on what goes on in the fight. Either option has its purpose, which is a good thing I suppose. I just with NB and MM were closer / more viable...

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    BD has an easy time maintaining the eternal weapon buff, but sin has the potential to get way more out of it if you can manage energy somehow. All your poisons benefit from the buff.
    Nivv <Stack More Crit>
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    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harumph View Post
    BD has an easy time maintaining the eternal weapon buff, but sin has the potential to get way more out of it if you can manage energy somehow. All your poisons benefit from the buff.
    Sin doesn't suffer from Energy problems, the main abilities you use for the rotation use relatively little energy, frag bomb uses 7, detonate uses 10, Satchel uses 4, Serpent Strike is 10, the only thing that uses a lot of energy is Jagged Strike
    Nixia@Greybriar (and Laethys)

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    Plane Touched Poshy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maltie View Post
    Sin doesn't suffer from Energy problems, the main abilities you use for the rotation use relatively little energy, frag bomb uses 7, detonate uses 10, Satchel uses 4, Serpent Strike is 10, the only thing that uses a lot of energy is Jagged Strike
    I havent used it alot in group/raid but on a dummy my Sin is burning energy and I dont hold the weapon buff. Some abilities have to actually wait for energy in rotation. This would be better with raid buffs. BD holds the weapon buff always. I havent had time to test as much as id like but I suspect Sin is going to lose in longer battles to BD. Im doing over 300k with both specs on a dummy. BD last time was around 320k Sin between 300-350k and drops the longer your poison malice stacks. My frags and trinket suck, rest of my gear is decent but unupgraded or a few pieces of the blue crafted stuff.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Alright so since im a pleb and can't quote i guess ill just type it out:

    You mentioned that sinsab doesn't burst, that's false because i've seen rogues who uses the spec actually somehow manage to burst up to 800k-1m dps and then sustain about 500-800k for about 2-3 mins, so i don't really see why anyone would go with BD as ST and sustain about 400-500k max? unless ofc there needs to be stuff to cleave then HELL YEA! BD ftw!

    What's more? oh yea, by the time we all get maxed out eternal weapons with awesome procs, how much will our dps go up to? i'll bet it will go up to 1m sustained for a min or two, unless ofc they either nerf the weapons or the spec (wink wink don't Think they will nerf the spec wink wink)

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    I havent used it alot in group/raid but on a dummy my Sin is burning energy and I dont hold the weapon buff. Some abilities have to actually wait for energy in rotation. This would be better with raid buffs. BD holds the weapon buff always. I havent had time to test as much as id like but I suspect Sin is going to lose in longer battles to BD. Im doing over 300k with both specs on a dummy. BD last time was around 320k Sin between 300-350k and drops the longer your poison malice stacks. My frags and trinket suck, rest of my gear is decent but unupgraded or a few pieces of the blue crafted stuff.
    There must be something wrong in your rotations. The only time I get under 50 energy is when my buffs go at the same time as my jagged strike. Also, with low pcrit the sinsab is mmuch stronger than the BD without the shadow of a doubt.
    The fact that BD get around 90% crit make it synergise much better with Pcrit than any other spec in the game for rogue.
    On a full cycle of sin 5 to 7 stacks plus reset of the cooldown. Sin is still better than BD

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Poshy's Avatar
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    Okay I want to try and figure out what ive got messed up. My builder macro is

    #show Fragmentation Sticky Bomb
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Call: Razorbeast
    cast @self Energy Manipulation
    cast Debilitating Dart
    cast Serpent Strike
    cast Detonate
    cast Fragmentation Sticky Bomb
    cast Assassinate
    cast Backstab
    cast Savage Strike
    cast Quick Shot

    I start with expose weakness and poison malice, get my jagged, puncture and impale on target then watch my cds and spam this builder. What am I missing?

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    Okay I want to try and figure out what ive got messed up. My builder macro is

    #show Fragmentation Sticky Bomb
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Call: Razorbeast
    cast @self Energy Manipulation
    cast Debilitating Dart
    cast Serpent Strike
    cast Detonate
    cast Fragmentation Sticky Bomb
    cast Assassinate
    cast Backstab
    cast Savage Strike
    cast Quick Shot

    I start with expose weakness and poison malice, get my jagged, puncture and impale on target then watch my cds and spam this builder. What am I missing?
    Well i have the same maccro, do you use your poisons (one give energy on hit) and do you use the mastery lvl 63 that give you energy too ? Maybe that's why you run low on energy while i'm always above 50.

    Also, i think you should put your legendary razorbeast at the end of your macro. Legendary spells can create some lag, and since , got them out of macro or at the end for Off GCD spells i have no issues.

    Just to be sure, Jagged strike is a 6 sec CD but 10 sec DOT, we agree that you reset it after if fall off ? Not on CD, right ? Because it's the most energy consuming spell in that spec.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    Okay I want to try and figure out what ive got messed up. My builder macro is

    #show Fragmentation Sticky Bomb
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Call: Razorbeast
    cast @self Energy Manipulation
    cast Debilitating Dart
    cast Serpent Strike
    cast Detonate
    cast Fragmentation Sticky Bomb
    cast Assassinate
    cast Backstab
    cast Savage Strike
    cast Quick Shot

    I start with expose weakness and poison malice, get my jagged, puncture and impale on target then watch my cds and spam this builder. What am I missing?
    satchel charge

  14. #14
    Plane Touched Poshy's Avatar
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    If I put legendary razor at the end of the macro it would never trigger since there are savage strike and quick strike. I only use jagged when dot ticks at 0

    I have all the masteries like the guide states I still run out of energy.

    I do not have satchel charge in my rotation at all though, that must be the difference in dps. When I get some time I will try this out. Thanks for the replies!

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    If I put legendary razor at the end of the macro it would never trigger since there are savage strike and quick strike. I only use jagged when dot ticks at 0

    I have all the masteries like the guide states I still run out of energy.

    I do not have satchel charge in my rotation at all though, that must be the difference in dps. When I get some time I will try this out. Thanks for the replies!
    Razorbeast is OFF GDC, so even at the end of the maccro it will be used when up. (minus legendary ability lag)
    Also without satchel charge you run out of charges quite fast. This means following your maccro, you will spam
    cast Assassinate
    cast Backstab
    cast Savage Strike

    which is more energy costly than bomb spamming.

    Just a reminder, Satchel Charge is legendary, do not put it in your builder maccro, it's a 30 second debuff to refresh on CD.

    Try this out, your dps will rise, and your energy will not be a problem.

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