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Thread: DPS in TD

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    Plane Walker Poshy's Avatar
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    Default DPS in TD

    So I am pretty new to rift. I love the different specs for rogue and have played around with alot of them. I have all souls except shadeborn, will get soon, but id like to know what others are using in TD. My gear is pretty low but I have some nice pieces hete and there and am moving along my eternal weapon quest (working on minion). Since im new and lower geared I dont think I would help my guild much as heal or bard at this point and certainly not ready for tank. That being said what is everyone using for dps? MM serms easiest but lacks dps imo. Id really like to do melee. Ive seen some decent rogues using a Sin build but no one has been using BD at least in my groups. a ton still go MM. Any thoughts? Thanks!

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    MM is played by most newer / casual players because it still does okay-ish dps and is relatively simple to play / very forgiving in terms of rotational mistakes / macroing. It is also the only true ranged option for rogues right now. I won't talk about the RFS bug because it's unreliable and will get patched soon (TM). Ironically, MM was in a much better place before 4.0 hit, but I digress.

    The only competitive spec rogues have right now for all gear levels is sin. Current best build has some ranged functionality too. Plenty of info on builds and such in the class guides section on here.

    BD is very straightforward right now, but also highly gear dependent. Even with the eternal weapon first proc on my rogue toon and mostly expert gear with orbs / 70 essences / pretty bad fragments, the most I can hit is like 280k st for dummy. But I've heard it explodes as you get better gear / fragments, so if you plan on sticking with your rogue and gearing it further / continue to upgrade fragments, it's definitely worth having /learning.

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    Plane Walker Poshy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. The new Sin build with sab is what i think you are referring too. I have played around with it and it seems decent. A little clunky for me and it drives me nuts to only use the one dot finisher. My BD spec does more in my gear with the set up rotations. On a dummy I was over 300k with my BD and was only in the 200k-250k with my Sin for ST. My gear is very low though, I have more green items then dungeon and TD drops. Ive only done 1 SPE and 4 TDs. Still using alot of the ascended essences. Im just starting to do TD really and run the SPEs.

    I used the dummy outside of Alittu not sure if that makes alot of a difference but it was the same dummy for both specs.

    I have the eternal weapon upgraded to the minion quest and a magma carver in my off hand. I think only thr main hand matters for damage though.

    My frags are pretty low also. Havent gotten any decent fire or death ones mine still have endurance and guard as the main stats. I have a few decent ones with CP, AP and dex on other slots but they are only infused to level 6 because im kinda poor.
    Last edited by Poshy; 04-10-2017 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    Thanks for the reply. The new Sin build with sab is what i think you are referring too. I have played around with it and it seems decent. A little clunky for me and it drives me nuts to only use the one dot finisher. My BD spec does more in my gear with the set up rotations. On a dummy I was over 300k with my BD and was only in the 200k-250k with my Sin for ST. My gear is very low though, I have more green items then dungeon and TD drops. Ive only done 1 SPE and 4 TDs. Still using alot of the ascended essences. Im just starting to do TD really and run the SPEs.

    I used the dummy outside of Alittu not sure if that makes alot of a difference but it was the same dummy for both specs.

    I have the eternal weapon upgraded to the minion quest and a magma carver in my off hand. I think only thr main hand matters for damage though.

    My frags are pretty low also. Havent gotten any decent fire or death ones mine still have endurance and guard as the main stats. I have a few decent ones with CP, AP and dex on other slots but they are only infused to level 6 because im kinda poor.
    I remember Artewig (one of the best rogues still playing) mentioning how BD is going to benefit the most from the weapon since it never loses energy. Since your weapon is further along, that might explain the higher BD numbers. I'm also just not very good at BD lol, probably using more empyrean bolts than I need to or something like that.

    But as for sin, the important thing to remember for builders is to just be detonating sticky bombs whenever you aren't using assassinate, jagged strike, backstab, or serpent strike / satchel charge (hint: you can just macro everything together in a certain order if you aren't trying to minmax, as all of those have cds except for bomb / detonate.....).

    Managing poison malice is key as well; better rogues than I will probably learn to turn it off and let it cool down during the lul points of every fight. I'm still pretty bad with toggling it during bosses

    I have a finisher macro with just the standard sin finisher and quick shot for when I happen to get disconnected at that exact moment. And then there's impale every however many seconds, but that's it for sin. The way I play it is pretty faceroll-y, and I can still do 400kish with it. I think I finished a QF at 390 because of the disconnects etc, but you get the idea.

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    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxsmith View Post
    I remember Artewig (one of the best rogues still playing)
    I actually saw this is no longer the case.
    So I would not expect more guides or info coming from him, unfortunately.
    !

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    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    So I am pretty new to rift. I love the different specs for rogue and have played around with alot of them. I have all souls except shadeborn, will get soon, but id like to know what others are using in TD. My gear is pretty low but I have some nice pieces hete and there and am moving along my eternal weapon quest (working on minion). Since im new and lower geared I dont think I would help my guild much as heal or bard at this point and certainly not ready for tank. That being said what is everyone using for dps? MM serms easiest but lacks dps imo. Id really like to do melee. Ive seen some decent rogues using a Sin build but no one has been using BD at least in my groups. a ton still go MM. Any thoughts? Thanks!
    For low gear Sin > BD, the more Pcrit you have, the closest the DPS will be.
    As for the raid, I can do every bosses on Melee.

    For the first boss I'm playing Sin, because the long add phases allow me to let my Poison buff refresh and burst the boss, plus it got great disconnect. Only issue, watch out your Charges because you can't use Satchel on every add.

    Second boss : You could go MM, to easily switch between totems, but with MM you need to apply debuffs and it's an important dps loss to switch target. So i'd go with one of those options ; Play BD and clean totem 1 by 1 (everyone on boss and 2dd clean totems), or go Sinsab and stick on boss all Fight while your group clean all the totem.

    Third boss, Sinsab is decent, but I prefer to play BD because you don't have dps loss when you switch target during add phases, also you can cleave the VOID with the boss or the adds. And finally, you have an interrupt for the healing crystal.

    Last boss, Sinsab all the way, Nuke that Magma Snail.

    Generally, i avoid playing MM because it's not really fun nor efficient. That leaves me with Sin or BD, if there is cleave needed or interrupt i choose BD, if i need to burst and i have tempo phases to reset my poison i choose Sin.
    Note : BD is better for target swapping, but Sinsab is better for disconnect (If it's less than 1.30min)

    Also, i saw you mention that you think you're not geared enough for Raid heal or Bard. No gear needed for Bard if your healer is good. And If you need to solo Raid Heal, i agree that you should have a bit of gear.
    If you want to challenge / train yourself as healer, you should play Raid heal spec in Dungeons and ask your tank to play a Tank/DD hybrid spec. That should teach you how to alternate between AOE rotation and ST CD.

    Now go, and show those warriors that their DPS isn't that OP ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxsmith View Post
    I remember Artewig (one of the best rogues still playing) mentioning how BD is going to benefit the most from the weapon since it never loses energy. Since your weapon is further along, that might explain the higher BD numbers. I'm also just not very good at BD lol, probably using more empyrean bolts than I need to or something like that.
    Assassin will also be able to benefit from the eternal very well, it very rarely drains. We also need to remember that Poisons are also affected by the Eternal Weapon, so Sin will benefit more than Bladedancer with higher eternals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    I have the eternal weapon upgraded to the minion quest and a magma carver in my off hand. I think only thr main hand matters for damage though.
    Yes and No.

    Damage is scaled from mainhand damage, but whenever you have an off-hand weapon equipped your MH damage is increased by 1.3* (Which is why im always rolling my eyes when people say Rogues get it worse than other classes in terms of weapon dps/stats with eternals)

    But yes, other than that, your offhand is a stat stick

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    For low gear Sin > BD, the more Pcrit you have, the closest the DPS will be.
    <snip>
    For specs you play on Bosses in TD its all about personal preference. First boss for example I play Bladedancer, because the first phase ends fairly quickly so you don't get much benefit from Satchel Charge, and there is no point using Satchel at any point during the add phases.

    By the time you get a phase where there will be enough time for Sin, there are a group of adds that you can cleave down as BD (tbh I BD the first 3 and if I can be bothered, i'd sin the last boss ~ But sometimes I just... cba)

    As for pcrit, you will max out on that fairly quickly with BD, it's already a very high crit rate so it won't gain an extremely high amount of dps, Assassin will still outperform Bladedancer when gear capped and even moreso when you move through the eternal weapon levels

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    Plane Walker Poshy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malteaser View Post
    Assassin will also be able to benefit from the eternal very well, it very rarely drains. We also need to remember that Poisons are also affected by the Eternal Weapon, so Sin will benefit more than Bladedancer with higher eternals.


    Yes and No.

    Damage is scaled from mainhand damage, but whenever you have an off-hand weapon equipped your MH damage is increased by 1.3* (Which is why im always rolling my eyes when people say Rogues get it worse than other classes in terms of weapon dps/stats with eternals)

    But yes, other than that, your offhand is a stat stick



    For specs you play on Bosses in TD its all about personal preference. First boss for example I play Bladedancer, because the first phase ends fairly quickly so you don't get much benefit from Satchel Charge, and there is no point using Satchel at any point during the add phases.

    By the time you get a phase where there will be enough time for Sin, there are a group of adds that you can cleave down as BD (tbh I BD the first 3 and if I can be bothered, i'd sin the last boss ~ But sometimes I just... cba)

    As for pcrit, you will max out on that fairly quickly with BD, it's already a very high crit rate so it won't gain an extremely high amount of dps, Assassin will still outperform Bladedancer when gear capped and even moreso when you move through the eternal weapon levels
    This is almost exactly how I run TD. I think im going to do Sin for 2nd boss now though, most groups prefer range dps on the souls now and everyone else on boss to make the bomb mechanic easier to manage with the pillar. I run with my guild but alot more with groups through chat.

    So this being the case, does it change the essence and frags you go for? I have a mix of ap and cp, but more and more Im looking for cp, it seems to benefit me more especially with BD. Just wish I could find death frags with cp they elude me. Right now I am sitting at 3200 cp I think. I will post a screenshot when I get a chance.

    The feedback on the 2 threads I have has helped me so much, thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    So this being the case, does it change the essence and frags you go for? I have a mix of ap and cp, but more and more Im looking for cp, it seems to benefit me more especially with BD. Just wish I could find death frags with cp they elude me. Right now I am sitting at 3200 cp I think. I will post a screenshot when I get a chance.

    The feedback on the 2 threads I have has helped me so much, thanks!
    Death CP frags are t1 and are extremely rare (because they are BiS) I havent found one either , best I have is a AP main stat

    As for essences I have a full CP set, for fragments there is a spreadsheet to show the BIS main stat (additional stats are completely rng so can't really help you there)

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    Plane Walker Poshy's Avatar
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    I havent found BiS essences anywhere. Where are they from? QF?

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    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    For High cp frag look out water fragment. I got To drop 2 decent ones from TD, combined they give nearly 1k PC.

    For the bis essence they all drop at QF, the lesser ones bis are 505 main stats and 371 pcrit not upped f I remember correctly. I'll make a screenshot tonight if you need it.

    Edit : for td second boss, did you mean you play Sin when you need To focus souls? If so, I believe BD is better with target swap.
    Last edited by Kreezhem; 04-17-2017 at 10:20 PM.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Poshy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    For High cp frag look out water fragment. I got To drop 2 decent ones from TD, combined they give nearly 1k PC.

    For the bis essence they all drop at QF, the lesser ones bis are 505 main stats and 371 pcrit not upped f I remember correctly. I'll make a screenshot tonight if you need it.

    Edit : for td second boss, did you mean you play Sin when you need To focus souls? If so, I believe BD is better with target swap.
    For second boss i am using Sin now mostly because im on boss, most groups I am with prefer to use range dps on souls so they can park farthest back to get the fire debuff for pillars.

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