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Thread: New PTS Balance Pass for Rogue

  1. #61
    Prophet of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Killing Assdancer and Assborn, making NB, SB, and Assassin 80% spamming 1 button, the hot mess Marksman is right now, the Tactician nerfs, the lack of content, the lack of balance, the rng based fragment system. I can't do it anymore.

    Every single enjoyable spec Rogue had is dead, and what's left is an underperforming dumpster fire.

    New PTS Balance Pass for Rogue-laststraw.jpg
    Last edited by Stihl; 01-13-2017 at 10:18 PM.

  2. #62
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    Killing Assdancer and Assborn, making NB, SB, and Assassin 80% spamming 1 button, the hot mess Marksman is right now, the Tactician nerfs, the lack of content, the lack of balance, the rng based fragment system. I can't do it anymore.

    Every single enjoyable spec Rogue had is dead, and what's left is an underperforming dumpster fire.

    Attachment 30397
    +Nightborn, Sinsab, Tactman

    RIP

    Sinsab was actually one of the most diligent/fun DPS hybrids in the game, there's a set rotation for the first 1min31 seconds if I remember correctly, messing up one of the buttons/rotation will drop the DPS by a lot. Many DPS specs in nightmare tide are actually challenging/fun especially if you compare them to the new Marksman that has 2s CD on empowered shot..
    Last edited by huangchingho; 01-13-2017 at 10:40 PM.

  3. #63
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    I am right there with you stihl... I've been around since early alpha I enjoyed theory crafting in Rift and finding interesting interactions with abilities... but this 4.0 has killed any drive I used to have to log in and play its disheartening what they have been doing to the classes.

    There are so many combinations and possibilities to play how you want to but it seems like they would rather force us into what they want our voices are taken with a grain of salt. I am not going to hold my breath waiting and hoping for rift to return to its roots and be fun again.

  4. #64
    Telaran Cithran's Avatar
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    I hope the devs read this; I already feel the Rogue class is the least fun to play. I haven't played on PTS, but reading here makes me wonder what will happen to the game in general.

    Unless Trion brings us good content and makes all classes fun to play - and that definitely doesn't mean running around spamming 1button specs - I'm afraid this game will loose even more players.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cithran View Post
    I hope the devs read this; I already feel the Rogue class is the least fun to play. I haven't played on PTS, but reading here makes me wonder what will happen to the game in general.

    Unless Trion brings us good content and makes all classes fun to play - and that definitely doesn't mean running around spamming 1button specs - I'm afraid this game will loose even more players.
    trust me, cleric has become much WORSE, and this is why i rerolled rogue, which isn't that bad.
    but i really think that 200>100% nerf in the curative engine is really really too much.

  6. #66
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Default 1/16 PTS hotloaded changes

    ROGUE
    Tactician
    Curative Torrent now has a wider zone (roughly twice as wide), and heals bounce much farther after initial application. (25m instead of 15).
    Curative Torrent no longer heals pets during its initial beam.
    *NEW* 12 Points - Impurity Siphoning Flask - Removes 1 Poison, Curse, or Disease.
    *NEW* 28 Points - Wide Recalibration Matrix - Removes 1 Curse, Disease, or Poison from up to 10 party or Raid members. CD 10s.
    *NEW* 36 Points - Reanimation Battery - Brings the fallen ally back to life, restoring 50% health and mana. Usable in combat. CD 5m.

    Assassin
    Assassinate now has a 6 second cooldown.
    Legendary Poison Malice starting bonus increased to 300%.
    Legendary Poison Malice no longer incorreactly adjusts your Global Cooldown.
    Legenadry Poison Malice now also has a 1 second lockout where it cannot be cast after casting it.
    Legendary Master of Poisons damage over time buff increased to 85%. Now applies to all damage over time abilities.
    Legendary Thread of Death damage penalty removed.

    Bladedancer
    Dancing Steel now only affects up to 4 targets.
    Hundred Blades now only affects up to 4 targets.
    Legendary Hundred Blades now has a 2 second cooldown to prevent rapid reactivation.
    Deadly Dance now has its effect doubled on Bladedancer attacks.
    Improved Deadly Dance increased to 6% per talent point (up from 4%).
    Legendary Side Steps movement speed increase no longer ends when you stop moving. Duration reduced to 12 seconds.


    Nightblade
    Legendary Flame Blitz damage bonus increased to 80%.
    Legendary Dark Descent has been reworked. It no longer causes finishers to refund combo points. Instead, the affected finishers deal 30% more damage. Emptiness is still not consumed by finishers when Legendary Dusk Strike is selected.
    Legendary Dusk Strike now has a 20m range.

    Marksman
    Legendary Free Recoil no longer reduces the damage of Empowered Shot. Cooldown no longer decreased. Grants 3 CP.

    Ranger
    Legendary Ace Shot procs no cause it to have no GCD.
    Legendary Splinter Shot is now instant.
    Rain of Arrows is now channeled for 1 second. Fully channeling it causes it to persist for up to 5 more seconds.
    Thoughts? ideas?

    - Tactician soul seems to favor more towards torrent healing. (41TACT/35PHYS/0RANGER)
    - Healing with Restorative Engine seems unrealistic as engines do not crit. (Phloromancer/58Tact)
    - Phloromancer has 2 b̶r̶e̶z̶z̶e̶s̶, AoE cleanses. But HPS needs to be tested in a raid condition.
    - Phys-tact and Torrentman has 2 AoE cleanses now.
    - Tactbard will be viable as a raid healer. With 2 AoE cleanses, 1 ST cleanse and a Brez.
    - Tactstalker (48RS/28TACT/0PHYS) now gets a ST and AoE cleanse, yay for Experts!
    - Survival specs that relied on Curative Engine are still obsolete because how engine procs do not crit and how non-legendary the numbers will be comparing to FK's Earthen Barrier. RIP survival specs, restorative engine healers, rogue tanks.
    - Assassin brand new playstyle, pending for testings. Tons of potential hybrids out there. The mechanics of Legendary Poison Malice now prevents accidental double taps.
    - Riftstalker's Legendary Soul Coalescence still suffers from double tap penalty, it'd be nice if it gets a change like Legendary Poison Malice.
    - RIP bladancer damage, going to test how much lower it does now, my guess is it's worse than/equivalent to NB.
    - Bladedancer changes indirectly forces players to play Saboteur, it used to be 45% less than Bladedancer, RIP rogue AOE DPS.
    - Hail NB, can't wait to find out, sounds pretty fun. (Dust Strike 20m range PogChamp)
    - Marksman's Empowered Shot: If it means it's 1GCD and awards 3CP, thats probably okay, at least it will be playable.
    - Ranger has a few more options now, Splinter shot instant cleaves so no need to waste one more GCD (Ranger/sab can consider taking it for passive cleaves), Ace Shot improvements! (from ~0.3GCD to OGCD, yay!)
    Last edited by huangchingho; 01-17-2017 at 02:29 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangchingho View Post
    Thoughts? ideas?

    - Tactician soul seems to favor more towards torrent healing. (41TACT/35PHYS/0RANGER)
    - Healing with Restorative Engine seems unrealistic as engines do not crit. (Phloromancer/58Tact)
    - Phloromancer has 2 brezzes, AoE cleanses. But HPS needs to be tested in a raid condition.
    - Phys-tact and Torrentman has 2 AoE cleanses now.
    - Tactstalker (48RS/28TACT/0PHYS) now gets a ST and AoE cleanse, yay for Experts!
    - Survival specs that relied on Curative Engine are still obsolete because how engine procs do not crit and how non-legendary the numbers will be comparing to FK's Earthen Barrier. RIP survival specs, restorative engine healers, rogue tanks.
    - Assassin brand new playstyle, pending for testings. The mechanics of Legendary Poison Malice and Soul Coalescence are still terrible as accidental double taps punish the player severely.
    - RIP bladancer damage, going to test how much lower it does now, my guess is it's worse than/equivalent to NB.
    - Bladedancer changes indirectly forces players to play Saboteur, it used to be 45% less than Bladedancer, RIP rogue AOE DPS.
    - Hail NB, can't wait to find out, sounds pretty fun. (Dust Strike 20m range PogChamp)
    - Marksman's Empowered Shot: If it means it's 1GCD and awards 3CP, thats probably okay, at least it will be playable.
    - Ranger has a few more options now, Splinter shot instant cleaves so no need to waste one more GCD (Ranger/sab can consider taking it for passive cleaves), Ace Shot improvements! (from ~0.3GCD to OGCD, yay!)


    Surprised Keyens actually helped us out, the time spent typing all those rogue feedbacks is worth~~~ Kreygasm

    Assassin might be interesting. Poison Malice got better but Assassinate's 6s cooldown also means a LOT fewer poison procs which used to synergies with Poison Malice.
    I am not sure if the Poison Malice buff could counteract Assassinate's nerf. More tests are needed at least the assassin dots is bumped a bit which should definietely help.

    Bladedancer's maximum AoE is halved ~cmonBruh should be at least 5 target but oh well...,
    BD ST dps is buffed tho so it might still has it's niche as a no disconnect melee ST dps with controllable cleave up to 4 targets. But since Sab is still broken Rogue AoE is pretty rip for now. Hope Keyens could figure out how to fix sabs soon.

    Nightblade oh yea sounds a lot more interesting thanks for listening to my "ranged emptiness stacks maintainer needed" rant. Can't wait to try this out.

    HOWEVER, I am still not clear how legendary flame blitz fiery spike bonus works. It's just a buff to the flame blitz dps itself? And legendary flame blitz no longer refresh existing fiery spike stack on the target is this intentional? Anyone knows? Thanks in advance.

    Marksman needs testing looks like MM will become a lot slower paced than it is on live to play.

    Ranger
    "Legendary Ace Shot procs no longer cause it to have no GCD" is a massive nerf. So it's back to just a normal aced shot that cost 1 full gcd while also means this directly delay and reduce twined shots from being used in the same time frame. No idea why it's necessary.

    And I guess we are expected to use Rain Of Arrows as part of rangers single target rotation now? From what it looks like it's some kind of ghetto passive cleave which sacrifice ranger's mobility to use... very interesting but I bet ranger dps just got even lower. 4Head...

    Unless the intention here is further nerf ranger dps, legendary Aced Shot proc should just be made into a full off-gcd attack.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 01-16-2017 at 06:51 PM.

  8. #68
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    If BD's AoE DPS is actually halved then Rogue's AoE dps will be Sab > Tactman > NB > BD.

    What a rollercoaster LOL...

    NB should be higher than BD since Flame Blitz is buffed
    Last edited by huangchingho; 01-16-2017 at 06:57 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangchingho View Post
    If BD's AoE DPS is actually halved then Rogue's AOE dps will be Saboteur > Tactman > NB > Bladedancer.

    What a rollercoaster LOL...

    NB should be higher than BD since Flame Blitz is buffed
    Yea big swing.

    I am still not sure how legendary flame blitz works. Since it doesn't refresh fiery spike it just applies them. Do we use flame blitz over blazing strike now?

  10. #70
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    I posted a comment about the testing I did with nightblade it still needs more work but it is going into a better direction. Flameblitz from my test yes does more dps then blazing strike but it causes the rotation to add 1 Gcd between every finisher due to not getting a free combo point like blazing strike nor all the other nice procs that are caused by blazing strike using two abilities in one GCD. Both of the rotations I tried that only used one or the other are really close but blazing strike pulls ahead.

  11. #71
    Ascendant Linolea's Avatar
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    I thought the idea was to "fine tune" towards balance. Pardon me, but it looks like someone used Stihl's chainsaw for the fine tuning. Exactly what would BD be used for anymore?
    De techniek staat voor niets
    **Rift Video Compendium**<---this be old and dates back to alpha

  12. #72
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    Anyone who plays rogue is going to feel a bit weaker because they have been severely overpowered for a long time.

    No class had as much broken and overpowered specs as rogue in the last 2 years. NO CLASS. Unfortunately, Trion doesn't understand when they leave a class as broken for that long time their player base TOTALLY EXPECTS for Trion to keep Rogue broken in some way or another. #unbreakable mass stun

    In my opinion Rogue will be more balanced and if most can't accept that it should be fine.
    Also, I would say rogue is not gimped at all. It is still better than other classes in many ways.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 01-16-2017 at 10:45 PM.

  13. #73
    Rift Disciple Noobly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    In my opinion Rogue will be more balanced and if most can't accept that it should be fine.
    Also, I would say rogue is not gimped at all. It is still better than other classes in many ways.


    We appreciate your extensive testing and constructive feedback. 😃

    Class envy? Eat a snickers.

  14. #74
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    Bladedancer's maximum aoe potential got halved, yes. On 4 or less targets it's still far ahead of everything else. A spec for actual cleave fights instead of trash packs. Good change imo.

    Nightblade is weak currently but the largest design flaw is gone and now number adjustments can begin. I may have mentioned it before but I don't think finishers should consume stacks of emptiness.

    61sin is op, partly due to jagged strike being too good but that's gonna be changed. Poison Malice didn't affect legendary assassinates secondary poison procs anyways, and with the huge buff it got we will just take that as legendary instead of assassinate. Assdancer is also back with a few more buttons

    Marksman ... eh ... weird. Emp Shot is still ogcd so you can do like finisher -> (emp) -> builder -> finisher etc.

  15. #75
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Default Hotload 1/17/17

    Ok, so looks like BD changes are set for now. BD > SB in single / dual target. And it's the best thing for <4 targets.


    ROGUE
    Assassin
    Poison Malice can no longer be cancelled.
    Legendary Poison Malice starting buff reduced to 275%.
    Jagged Strike now has a 6 second CD.

    Nightblade
    Legendary Dusk Strike's energy penalty reduced to 10% per stack.
    Legendary Dusk Strike's damage bonus increased to 30% per stack.
    Legendary Dusk Strike's buff duration increased to 20 seconds.
    Ebon Blades debuff increased from 5% per stack to 12% per stack.
    Jagged Strike are not spammable anymore, so Assborn and 61 Assassin should get their new rotations.

    More Nightblade adjustments.
    Last edited by huangchingho; 01-17-2017 at 06:17 PM.

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