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Thread: Lets Talk Nightblade

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    Default Lets Talk Nightblade

    Lets Talk Nightblade
    I would like to start a Discussion about Nightblade. Mostly because from what i have noticed is that at the start of the expansion before gear started to improve Drastically it was Decent for level 70 But as we got new Gear Other Rogue Specs started to pull well ahead. (Even Ranged spec are pulling ahead of Nightblade...)

    From what i am seeing the reason that NB is falling behind is due to the scaling its Finisher damage. I mean the spec for 21 seconds of a 30second rotation it is purely Finisher spam... thats all there is to it... nothing more nothing less and it causes the spec to suffer compared to other builds. It needs some adjustments i am sure i am not the only person around that enjoys the playstyle of what Nightblade used to be but what it has become is something that will rest on the Shelf because it will never shape up to capabilities that other specs are able to do. I mean nowadays EVEN Tactician is more useful then Nightblade...

    This Thread is meant to bring in Ideas for what could be done to Nightblade to make it more enjoyable then a one button spam for 21 seconds out of 30 seconds and subpar.

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    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anmoa View Post
    Lets Talk Nightblade
    I would like to start a Discussion about Nightblade. Mostly because from what i have noticed is that at the start of the expansion before gear started to improve Drastically it was Decent for level 70 But as we got new Gear Other Rogue Specs started to pull well ahead. (Even Ranged spec are pulling ahead of Nightblade...)

    From what i am seeing the reason that NB is falling behind is due to the scaling its Finisher damage. I mean the spec for 21 seconds of a 30second rotation it is purely Finisher spam... thats all there is to it... nothing more nothing less and it causes the spec to suffer compared to other builds. It needs some adjustments i am sure i am not the only person around that enjoys the playstyle of what Nightblade used to be but what it has become is something that will rest on the Shelf because it will never shape up to capabilities that other specs are able to do. I mean nowadays EVEN Tactician is more useful then Nightblade...

    This Thread is meant to bring in Ideas for what could be done to Nightblade to make it more enjoyable then a one button spam for 21 seconds out of 30 seconds and subpar.
    Lets Talk Nightblade-nb.jpg

    Gears are just experts fully upgraded, and normal level-6 fragments.

    Recently did this NB parse, I find NB quite enjoyable with the spec you provided,

    Conceal -> Dark malady -> Scourge of Darkness -> Dusk to dawn -> DftS -> Dusk strike -> Blazing strike -> then stack up 5 stacks of Empitness with Dusk strike and start spamming finishers (and refresh Emptiness using dusk strike even during the DD duration), the duration perfectly lines up with dusk to dawn , and you can build up 5 CP, finisher and start stacking emptiness and repeat spamming.

    It's quite satisfying, but the numbers just aren't high enough, Cleave-BD (BD hundred blades can use as DC) is a better option, ST even with range, MM, ST melee - Assborn and Shadeborn. Even with sub30 damage boost, I still doubt it can beat those specs, also no interrupt is still a flaw.

    Mechanic-wise Nightblade is fine, but some tuning would fix it :3
    Last edited by huangchingho; 12-12-2016 at 06:55 AM.

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    The thing about NB is that it's a quasi ranged melee, but it requires you to be in melee to maintain emptiness stacks, or your finisher deals 100% less damage and the fact that you are required to self maintaining these emptiness stacks while during your finisher spamming block while in full melee with no way to keep it up defeats a lot of purposes for this soul. Also NB doesn't really cleave outside the melee range around it either, BD is far superior in that aspect.

    Emptiness should last longer than 10s when you have legendary dusk strike selected or make it so during when you have legendary dusk strike ebon fury instant grant 5 stacks of emptiness, and your finisher do not consume them for the 10 second ebon fury is active, it's just a little QoL changes.

    Or have twilight force to apply emptiness when legendary dusk strike is taken.

    At this point 61NB barely outdps MM and BD in single target and BD has far superior cleave, I don't see any reason whatsoever playing NB other in some extremely niche fights in raid that we do not have yet.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 12-12-2016 at 09:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anmoa View Post
    This Thread is meant to bring in Ideas for what could be done to Nightblade to make it more enjoyable .
    I'm about the furthest thing from a build expert however I saw a NB-Sab the other day while farming major rifts that seemed to be doing well. I mention this mainly as Invincibie here seems to have an affinity for sab splashes. He had Time Bomb so guessing he was at least 11 points in.

    I would think this clunky like sin-sab but... just putting it out there. And yes I'm sure major rift farms aren't really the measuring stick you're looking for but again just food for thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobly View Post
    I'm about the furthest thing from a build expert however I saw a NB-Sab the other day while farming major rifts that seemed to be doing well. I mention this mainly as Invincibie here seems to have an affinity for sab splashes. He had Time Bomb so guessing he was at least 11 points in.

    I would think this clunky like sin-sab but... just putting it out there. And yes I'm sure major rift farms aren't really the measuring stick you're looking for but again just food for thought.
    Actually you don't need 11pt into sab to get time bomb.
    If he had detonate dps then he's for sure 100% 11pts in at least.
    Any viable spec with sab as subsoul will be 11 points because detonate does good dps otherwise the whole sticky bomb -> detonate won't be worth using as half of your gcds you will be doing 0 dps outside "redeeming" the 2nd portion of the sticky bombs damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobly View Post
    I'm about the furthest thing from a build expert however I saw a NB-Sab the other day while farming major rifts that seemed to be doing well. I mention this mainly as Invincibie here seems to have an affinity for sab splashes. He had Time Bomb so guessing he was at least 11 points in.

    I would think this clunky like sin-sab but... just putting it out there. And yes I'm sure major rift farms aren't really the measuring stick you're looking for but again just food for thought.
    Would be nice to see the damage distribution
    And there's a few things to consider, is it able to beat Bladedancer, and is it just burst numbers that you were seeing or will it be sustained...

    I am guessing the build would be sab/nb but not nb/sab just because NB is harder (or no reason) to spec into sab..

    FYI, Trion reworked basically all rogue (melee) souls, there won't be any weapon swap delays anymore. Aka, more hybrid friendly in this expansion.
    Last edited by huangchingho; 12-13-2016 at 05:33 PM.

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    Rift Disciple Noobly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangchingho View Post
    Would be nice to see the damage distribution
    Yeah sorry I'd say 90% of the dps was NB so more likely NB-Sab. If I see it again will ss. It was mostly all burst as we had a full raid doing majors so nothing lasted very long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobly View Post
    Yeah sorry I'd say 90% of the dps was NB so more likely NB-Sab. If I see it again will ss. It was mostly all burst as we had a full raid doing majors so nothing lasted very long.
    what are the numbers? Be more specific, because I know NB AOE bursts can be insane, specing sab very likely is a DPS loss (only 61 point is useful)

    61NB/15Ranger/0Sin should probably still be top spec.
    Last edited by huangchingho; 12-13-2016 at 06:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huangchingho View Post
    FYI, Trion reworked basically all rogue (melee) souls, there won't be any weapon swap delays anymore. Aka, more hybrid friendly in this expansion.
    FYI, This topic doesnt agree with you.
    Also a heck lad of my rogue melee friends say the same, but this thread is the closest written one.
    so I guess your FYI is quite wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishoujo View Post
    FYI, This topic doesnt agree with you.
    Also a heck lad of my rogue melee friends say the same, but this thread is the closest written one.
    so I guess your FYI is quite wrong.
    I can confirm weapon delays are no longer there, though i have not tried all the specs combinations but for the specs that i have atm, none of it has problems, neither riftstalker nor bard. It would be nice if you could record a video or specific soul tree setup with macros so that i can take a closer look and try it out myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisakaMikoto View Post
    I can confirm weapon delays are no longer there, though i have not tried all the specs combinations but for the specs that i have atm, none of it has problems, neither riftstalker nor bard. It would be nice if you could record a video or specific soul tree setup with macros so that i can take a closer look and try it out myself.
    And a good number of people i know (more than i know you, at least.) Can confirm it's still there, as much as the thread i linked can confirm.

    And i can't give you any vid since... hmmm, don't remember myself saying I personally had this issue, do you remember such a thing?

    Jus' saying, if it still exists, it means it wasn't (properly) fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishoujo View Post
    And a good number of people i know (more than i know you, at least.) Can confirm it's still there, as much as the thread i linked can confirm.

    And i can't give you any vid since... hmmm, don't remember myself saying I personally had this issue, do you remember such a thing?

    Jus' saying, if it still exists, it means it wasn't (properly) fixed.
    I too was one of those that were experiencing macro lag issues with mm and sb, but it seems to have been fixed now, i no longer have lag issues with macro now. A video isn't completely necessary, and a screenshot of the soul tree of the role that you lags and the macro that is used works too so i can try it out myself.

    (ps. Whether its yours or not doesn't matter, otherwise it doesn't have much of a business with someone who is only expressing that the problem still exists when he/she is unable to provide any further info but purely based on other people that are still experiencing the problem.)
    Last edited by MisakaMikoto; 12-14-2016 at 01:55 AM.
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    Let's try to keep this on the topic of NB and not start a tangent on weapon ability delays due to weapon swaps.

    Back on the topic legendary dusk strikes duration needs to be increased so that it can at least last through the finishers spam. That would make the spec less clunky for now but it won't 100% fix the underlying issues the spec has if they have to move dusk strike further into the root to make it work so that some OP hybrid doesn't pop up so be it. I mean as it is between CD's and Finisher spam in melee range NB only uses three abilities now... Dusk Strike, DFtS and DtD. You don't even Have to use Ebon ffury to maintain energy for dusk strike spam....

    Even though NB can do decent numbers in a clunky rotation it is still doing less numbers then a full ranged spec and almost less then a Full cleave spec.

    Maybe they could do some changes to NB to bring it from a wannabe cleave and ST build to a straight melee/range ST soul.

    I mean I had some great ideas for hybrids in nightmare tide for a Scourge of Darkness and Nexus of Darkness interaction.. but they destroyed that by my guess because it would require to much work for them to fix Scourge consuming Nexus but not receiving the finisher bonus. They instead just made it flat out not react with each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anmoa View Post
    Let's try to keep this on the topic of NB and not start a tangent on weapon ability delays due to weapon swaps.

    Back on the topic legendary dusk strikes duration needs to be increased so that it can at least last through the finishers spam. That would make the spec less clunky for now but it won't 100% fix the underlying issues the spec has if they have to move dusk strike further into the root to make it work so that some OP hybrid doesn't pop up so be it. I mean as it is between CD's and Finisher spam in melee range NB only uses three abilities now... Dusk Strike, DFtS and DtD. You don't even Have to use Ebon ffury to maintain energy for dusk strike spam....

    Even though NB can do decent numbers in a clunky rotation it is still doing less numbers then a full ranged spec and almost less then a Full cleave spec.

    Maybe they could do some changes to NB to bring it from a wannabe cleave and ST build to a straight melee/range ST soul.

    I mean I had some great ideas for hybrids in nightmare tide for a Scourge of Darkness and Nexus of Darkness interaction.. but they destroyed that by my guess because it would require to much work for them to fix Scourge consuming Nexus but not receiving the finisher bonus. They instead just made it flat out not react with each other.
    I agree, Nightborn used to be one of the most fun spec. But then now it's impossible to play that hybrid. I tried a more Shadeborn heavy hybrid, Shadeblade (48SB/28NB/0Sin), although it pulls more than 61 Nightblade, 61Shadeborn still does a lot more.

    I don't think there could be any viable hybrids for nightblade at this point unless dust strike and dark descent legendaries are reworked/tweaked (like animalism). Some fully melee ST specs are still parsing way lower than ranged specs and that feels wrong to me. (Nightblade and Assassin)
    Last edited by huangchingho; 12-14-2016 at 03:55 AM.

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    I mean hell because of legendary Dark Decent it made one of our talent lose 90% of its damage can't remember the name and can't look it up cause I'm at work but... We have a talent that causes Weapon dps as a DoT after every Finisher..... It became useless at least cause legendary Dark Decent to cause the DoT from Finishers to burst... instead of repeatable refreshing it before it could cause any decent damage.
    Last edited by Anmoa; 12-14-2016 at 04:29 AM.

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