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Thread: Most optimal offsouls for some specs

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Default Most optimal offsouls for some specs

    There are lots of fantastic guides on the guide section in the forum, but there are some variants/playstyle that I find currently works better for myself, as a result of higher DPS. This slightly higher DPS might help those progression teams in achieving DPS check on certain bosses. I feel like sharing this and discussions are welcome.

    First spec: 61 Bladedancer/ 11 Ranger / 4 Assassin

    Originally: 61 Bladedancer / 12 Assassin / 3 Nightblade

    Why this variant?

    Because after various testing, I find it benefits more as "Magnify Pain" does not always apply to all targets, it's hard to keep that Debuff on every single target you hit especially when Blade and Soul Parity ran out. Also, Leeching Poison doesn't really help that much on PvE because the chance of applying Poison is split between however many targets you're hitting. So 61 Bladedancer/ 11 Ranger / 4 Assassin will do better on both AOE and ST. With the extra Crit chance from 11 Ranger, I happened to have 40% Crit chance and Crit Power/Damage self buffed, together with Blade and Soul Parity, I get 90% Crit Chance and damage, with the 5% Debuff in raid (or your Dauntless Strike), and 5% Crit chance from Beastmaster/Archon, that's over 100% Crit chance with raid buffs along with 90% Crit Power/Damage under the duration of Blade and Soul Parity. Also with higher AP, the better it scales with AP Raid cooldowns like Flaring Power.

    Also I have changed the playstyle a little bit, my Rhythmic Action are in order of Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bdd.png, I tend to use Planar Variation on the last tick of Blade and Soul Parity to ensure I have 100% crit chance with it and it does more than Energy Manipulation on both ST and AOE, and use Dancing Steel on the last tick of Fated Blade to prolong the duration of it, therefore I only use 6 Seconds of Blade Tempo and will refresh Dauntless Strike (As I use it at the start of the fight) during that duration and before Blade and soul parity comes off cooldown.

    However, Bladedancer is the best spec for melee cleaving (ST and AOE fights, I use Warmaster Synergy Crystal) and will certainly be useful in the future. It's important to min-max this spec for current and upcoming contents.

    Point Distributions:
    http://i.imgur.com/CK6scGZ.png
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bd.jpg

    My gear for reference:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bd1.jpg

    ST Dummy: (100% Crit Planar Variation OP)
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bd2.jpg

    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bd3.jpg

    8-Target AOE Dummy:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bd6.jpg

    ROF HM Drekanoth of Fate as an example of cleave fight (100% Crit Planar Variation):
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bd4.jpg

    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-bd5.jpg

    Second Spec: 61 Marksman / 10 Bladedancer / 5 Nightblade

    Original Spec: 61 Marksman / 11 Ranger / 4 Nightblade

    Why this variant? Nothing too special about this, as the extra Crit Chance you get from Marksman soultree, there really is no need to go 61 Marksman / 11 Ranger / 4 Nightblade. This variant has higher tooltip values and therefore scales better with raid buffs and cooldowns. With the legendary abilities changes, I am almost 100% certain that MM would be competitive in 4.0.

    Point Distribution:
    http://i.imgur.com/9KR3KBW.jpg
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-qq-20161016234743.jpg

    My gear for reference:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-mm.jpg

    Dummy:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-qq-20161017000246.jpg

    SOL Shockbite Parse:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-mm.jpg

    Third Spec: 61 Shadeborn / 15 Nightblade / 0 Assassin

    Original Spec: 61 Shadeborn / 12 Assassin / 3 Nightblade

    Why this Variant? Because the original offsouls doesn't really do that much, my results are showing that Nightblade does more damage. Nightblade weapon enchantment does not share the same proc with Assassin's, that's why it's interesting. Besides the greater passive buffs from Nightblade soultree , Hellfire Blades does more damage than Leeching Poison. With the legendary abilities changes to Shadeborn in 4.0, I think Shadeborn will be valuable in some encounters.

    Point Distribution:
    http://i.imgur.com/XlpVoIP.png
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-qq-20161016234553.jpg

    My Gear for reference:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-qq-20161016233731.jpg

    ST Dummy:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-qq-20161017224312.jpg

    Dual-Target Dummy:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-qq-20161016233318.jpg

    Forth Spec: 50 Saboteur / 16 Bladedancer / 10 Ranger

    Original Spec: 50 Saboteur / 21 Bladedancer / 5 Nightblade

    Why this variant? Well the original spec is still great if you have a higher tier melee mainhand weapon, but for me, I get better results when I pick this spec which scales off my Range weapon, and it even does more damage with the 2% AP/WD and 5% Crit Chance which on the other hand, I lost 10% Active Modifier damage. This is more like an alternative spec to the original spec if you have better Range Weapon than your Melee Mainhand.

    Point Distribution:
    http://i.imgur.com/6EXBqVP.png
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-sab-points.jpg


    Final Words:

    These are just some of the variant I find that does better than the original specs, however if there are more that you discovered and willing to share it, everyone else will be thankful



    Invincibie@Laethys
    Last edited by huangchingho; 10-17-2016 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser MisakaMikoto's Avatar
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    Why isnt there a dislike button for thread? lol jks :P

    First spec: i believe the dance order was already that way for a long time, as far as i know, that was the order i have been using since mom started, besides the two poison buffs, i heard someone said ages ago damage taken debuff worth more than just flat ap and damage.

    Second spec: i may be wrong on the spec, but i remembered ages ago someone told me higher tooltip values arent really that high in dps.

    Third spec: again two poison buffs and magnify pain as first spec.

    Fourth spec: again, someone told me ages ago that certainly damage increase buff scales better than just flat ap and damage.

    Haven't been on the forums often nowdays, havent seen gery or oranges in ages as well, i could be wrong though.
    Last edited by MisakaMikoto; 10-17-2016 at 01:26 AM.
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    So for Bladedancer the Specs will all do similar Dps numbers there wont be a Major Difference the 12sin/3NB is the Inbetween avg for both AE and ST it doesnt excel at either as opposed to the other two that are in the Guide for BD, Also for ST Rotation of Dances its BaSP then FB then Dualism, Dualism is a Higher Net dps ST then Blade tempo is you use only Quick strike and Binary strike Rotating 4 and 5 point Finishers ( this was proven Many times back during Storm legion and Blade dancer really hasnt changed since then.) For the AE Rotation of Dance's it is BaSP With PV at somepoint in it, then FB and then Blade tempo Or Double Coup (Blade tempo if you have HB and Dancing steel up for whatever the reason and Double Coup if you have to spam Twin strike for a few seconds while waiting for BaSP) With the way the Rhythmic Actions work you only Need to use 3 of them to Rotate through Unless situation changes and you have to change your rotaion.
    For your MM, Its been pointed out and Known before that Swaping from the Ranger Tree from the AP/WP buff and Points to either old 10 Sab (10% dex and 10%AP/WD) and 5 Nightblade (10%AP/WD) Netted higher dps Due to the T2/T3 scaling of Dex and AP/WD.
    With Shadeborn 61point is pretty Useless in Comparison to the 58 Shade build that does all around better on Fights that you may want to use Shadeborn on, because of bladetempo burst being so ridic, but its mute either way at this point since the fights you would need dual targeting Sab is better at now.
    For A higher point Sab build dont think alot of the playerbase worries too much about the build because there is only 1 fight Current expac that it is even somewhat Useful and that is Matron. Even then most would play BD on that fight do to is having Burst AE (for the children) and decentish ST for inbetween children phases.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anmoa View Post
    So for Bladedancer the Specs will all do similar Dps numbers there wont be a Major Difference the 12sin/3NB is the Inbetween avg for both AE and ST it doesnt excel at either as opposed to the other two that are in the Guide for BD, Also for ST Rotation of Dances its BaSP then FB then Dualism, Dualism is a Higher Net dps ST then Blade tempo is you use only Quick strike and Binary strike Rotating 4 and 5 point Finishers ( this was proven Many times back during Storm legion and Blade dancer really hasnt changed since then.) For the AE Rotation of Dance's it is BaSP With PV at somepoint in it, then FB and then Blade tempo Or Double Coup (Blade tempo if you have HB and Dancing steel up for whatever the reason and Double Coup if you have to spam Twin strike for a few seconds while waiting for BaSP) With the way the Rhythmic Actions work you only Need to use 3 of them to Rotate through Unless situation changes and you have to change your rotaion.
    For your MM, Its been pointed out and Known before that Swaping from the Ranger Tree from the AP/WP buff and Points to either old 10 Sab (10% dex and 10%AP/WD) and 5 Nightblade (10%AP/WD) Netted higher dps Due to the T2/T3 scaling of Dex and AP/WD.
    With Shadeborn 61point is pretty Useless in Comparison to the 58 Shade build that does all around better on Fights that you may want to use Shadeborn on, because of bladetempo burst being so ridic, but its mute either way at this point since the fights you would need dual targeting Sab is better at now.
    For A higher point Sab build dont think alot of the playerbase worries too much about the build because there is only 1 fight Current expac that it is even somewhat Useful and that is Matron. Even then most would play BD on that fight do to is having Burst AE (for the children) and decentish ST for inbetween children phases.
    Yup, the reason I picked up BD for discussion is because the way I do it, it does fairly well while not to sacrifice the potential in dealing AOE damage, I didn't bother with dualism as I believe the difference will be very very very small because there's only ~6 seconds in between the third Rhythmic action and BaSP (~4 seconds if you include Hundred Blade) , therefore it doesn't really matter that much. There's two way of using PV during BaSP, it's either before Lava Field expires (last tick) or using it on last tick of BaSP, I figured it'd be better to use it upon Lava expiration and use Hundreds Blade at the end of BaSP, then follow by FB, and Dancing Steels upon expiration. But I usually save Hundreds Blade as that cone AOE ability is OP (more coverage and better positioning) and use it on say like Lord Arak Dragon Phase. Following with the third Rhythmic Action, that 6 second block, I tend to use it to refresh Dauntless Strikes because I don't do as much damage anyway, and just repeat the process with BaSP. I also use Warmaster Crystal instead of Reaper because there's ST and AOE involved, so why not pick something in between? I suppose a lot of people don't play BD correctly that's why I intend to bring up a discussion before 4.0 starts. I pull similar numbers for ST(about 1.3-2k higher) but about 5-10k higher on AOE rotation (Magnify Pain does not stay up on all targets hit) comparing to the original spec. As to compare 61BD/11Ranger/4SIN with 61BD/10SIN/5NB, I'll take 4% AP/WD and 5% Crit over 2% Physical Damage and 5% debuff damage from Magnify Pain without even thinking...

    More Passive Cleaving, Parse with Hundred Blades in rotation, it'd be awesome on fights like HK inquisitor.

    ST:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-1111.jpg

    ST with Passive Cleaves abilities:
    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-11111.jpg

    Most optimal offsouls for some specs-2222.jpg


    However, for MM. A lot of geared folks still use 61MM/11Ranger/4NB, it's good to bring this up. The difference between these two variants is around 2k DPS on dummy for me.

    For Shadeborn, 58SB isn't really in the meta right now, unless you're going for bursts or dual-target bursts, with that Shadow Twin nerf, there're other alternatives for ST DPS. I brought up 61SB, because I have a hunch that it will be used in 4.0 (cuz legendary ability). It's still the best dual-target spec if the two targets are not stacked up. That variant is so much better than the original one. Magnify Pain does not affect secondary target and 2 points are being spent on useless physical damage, leeching poison is far worse than Hellfire Blades as a proc. I pull about 2-3k higher on ST and 3-4K higher with Dual-target on dummy parses.

    For Sab, it's just a heads up for those who have better Range weapon, because this variant isn't mentioned in the guide.

    I do not think Leeching Poison is worth getting in PvE unless you have both healing/AP greater procs, so much sacrifices were being made for those 12 Assassin offsouls, LOL!

    BTW, great feedback!
    Last edited by huangchingho; 10-17-2016 at 03:56 AM.

  5. #5
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    Dualism Vs Double coup and Blade tempo is a Major diffrence, with Dualism you can get two hits of Quick Strike which is technically our highest damaging combo point gaining ability and thats only for 4 point comb finisher part of the rotation when you are going for 5 combo points it will hit a total of 4 times in 3 GCD's I mean for me not sure about others but my Quick strike during Dualism ranges from two 40khits=80k or Crits around 70k=140k (depends on the combo point finisher used during the rotation). I know from pervious testing that those are Hiting for around the same numbers as it would during the other two dance's and you are getting more of them due to the Doubling of combo points and pushing out more finishers. Also Dualism lasting 6 seconds is not a hard timer (or for any of the dances you use third in the rotation for whatever the reason) because BD is all about situational and timing, IE like Drakanoth in RoF like you were talking about earlier i know personally im not going to Clip a Dualism if there are no adds up and im dpsin the boss or the Idol, I would go the full timer of Dualism then goto the next dance right before adds come up to make sure i have either BaSP or FB up for them to burst them down to get longer time to ST the Boss.

    If the Legendary abilities for BD stay the same and FB will be usable during other Rhythmic actions then Dualism Will become the Goto 2nd Dance after BaSP+FB (or if testing on the pts proves it to be better used with another dance someway some how for ST it will more then likely be Dualism) and then either Double coup or Blade tempo dont remeber which one nets more dps in ST rotations anymore because i only use them if i have to for saving BaSP or FB. I dont see the Legendary abilities Drasticaly changing BD's play style very much.


    Btw: if you only read the First Page of the BD Guide you wont find all the proof about the Dualism rotation (quick strike OP yo)
    Last edited by Anmoa; 10-17-2016 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Went back to look at Muspels old BD guide to verify somethings

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Yea, priorities will most likely change. Gotta do some testing when SFP goes live on PTS.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Xclvsive's Avatar
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    50sab/24nb/2sb is the best sab spec.
    ~Xclusive
    ~Ominous

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer huangchingho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xclvsive View Post
    50sab/24nb/2sb is the best sab spec.
    Elaborate? 6% non-physical attacks might not be too good on Sab, I can see it being great on PV. Weapon Procs are bad for AOE specs in general. What differences are you seeing?

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