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Thread: New Sab Guide....interim

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default New Sab Guide....interim

    NOTE: Before you spend too much time with this build, take a look below at the 48 sab version. I'm getting significantly more damage out of that atm. The rotations are very close with just a couple obvious changes.

    Until someone comes up with an elegant new sab guide I thought I would throw up something basic to get people started:

    First, I'm using 61 sab because the new Bottomless Bandolier is incredible. Also using 11 MM for ranged combat mastery and 4 nb.

    The basics...

    The new sab has basically two modes:
    Mode one is sticky bomb mode and mode 2 is cloudmaker/chemical mode

    If more than 3 enemies, toggle on Grand Explosion. Also, when the reactive for time bomb pops up, hit it regardless of where you are in the rotation.

    The basic rotation for sticky bomb mode is fire off all three sticky bombs and then hit detonate.

    Open with 30 charges....go through two basic sticky bomb rotations to burn your charges then fire off Last Ditch Effort (it consumes zero charges but still applies all sticky bombs and hit Detonate. Then hit Bottomless Bandolier and Final Countdown and repeat your basic sticky bomb rotation for 20 seconds until Bottomless Bandolier runs out. When Bottomless Bandolier runs out you will again have 30 charges, so repeat the basic sticky bomb rotation 2 more times to zero out charges.

    At this point you switch to cloudmaker/chemical mode. Fire off Battle Chemist to give 10 Chemical mixtures and fire Cloud Maker. Then hit flashbang until you have 5 combo points and hit Satchel Charge and then hit Cloudmaker. After each 5x Flashbang/Satchel Charge rotation you should have approximately 10 Chem Mixtures so fire Cloudmaker after each Satchel Charge. After two or three Flachbang /Satchel Charge rotations you should have 30 charges. When you have 30 charges go ahead and fire off a pair of basic sticky bomb rotations. Continue Flashbang/Satchel Charge rotations until your Bottomless Bandolier and Final Countdown are back up. If they are back up and you have close to 30 charges, go ahead and start the whole rotation over again. If they are back up and you have less than 20 charges, do only a single sticky bomb rotation before you go to Last Ditch Effort Above. If you have less than 10 charges skip both the two initial basic sticky bomb rotations and go directly to Latch Ditch Effort above.

    If anyone has constructive criticism or alternative rotations or specs, please feel free to throw them up. This is just an initial basic attempt to get something reasonable which works.

    I'm getting between 275 and 300k dps vs TB training dummies with this rotation.

    Best of Luck.....Gwythril/Geph
    Last edited by Geph; 08-24-2016 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geph View Post
    I'm getting between 275 and 300k dps vs TB training dummies with this rotation.
    That seems quite a bit lower than what other people tell me they're doing.

    Please link your stats and gear.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    can u please post a complete build on this with macros as well. that would be great

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taco Salad View Post
    can u please post a complete build on this with macros as well. that would be great
    The build is 61 sab. I'm not too sure about the sub souls yet. I'm running 11 marksman and 4 nb but haven't really sat down and run the numbers for the optimal off-souls. As far as posting a complete build, magelo hasn't updated with the new sab spec yet. That being said, here's essentially what I'm using at the moment:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#B...8/Ah0w/wu|XLXM

    As far as macros, there are none. I don't believe macros are really going to work for this spec. Macros work great when the abilities have cool downs so you can stack them in macros. Unfortunately, sab uses two different types of 'charges' instead of cooldowns to control how often you use abilities and includes synergy between various abilities that prevents you from simply spamming a few abilities.

    As far as gear goes, I'm in full T3 except for ranged and chest and short a trinket. However, the weapons don't have procs.

    Since macros won't really work, I'll detail the layout that I use and include a couple k-alerts.

    First the k-alerts:
    (this one is simply a big reminder that you have Grand Explosion toggled on)
    KA:grand:a2//weNotjtkKgzAQRX/FL2jjUhfmySWKUGKxFvogSNxgIDVi8lD/vlHKuQOzXIYLNj
    SwCr5PGxxtbqrY+DJa9LsKqVAuEJOEpEkceGEWkJCGCRDjzQ3E UOOsIeOaX9tX2fIeBeq9w0Euqu
    3lp+/UOg3IBSp9GUcFtuc6EN08iPxDjnlV1DHLLPp+3KtnWTGrYpBS1 tDa3IwOXHKG+6/PyT8D5D
    +t0zkH

    (this one tells you how many charges [30 max] you have at the moment..using all 3 sticky bombs burns through fifteen charges so maxed out you can do two full basic sticky bomb rotations)
    KA:charges:a0QMUeNotjk8LAiEQxb9RuaXiMiezXejSYdluQt hqm2R/cLws0XdPJX5vYObxmBlo
    YIR3MIuLUNo+o24mzg5BUi4Vk7SlspFM7ASQnCkJkhn8NcHeJL PWp4M2Fx98Ws5+ej1Ru+Ae0SG1
    K2sRBGG1Wl60yTs+mMx0xy+o7jh2Q3ayCpzUH/72tky83ut/0Z4xeA

    (this one tells you how many stacks of chemical mixture you have up [20 max] but damage is greatest when cloudmaker is fired at 10 stacks)
    KA:chem:arXbseNotTkEOgjAQ/Iov0IJaafZESkk86IHgrQlZoIaNIIZWIzH+3ZaYmcPMZDK7EEE
    Jjx5nM0GQuYfszEAN9qsTvd1zMpCyvUplwg9SiSzmLAXmy6HKP Aq6OsjQ4UZfjhpr6snNFTXj3ep
    6HOoK285Yepl121rgQkDCdiB4YOx3PtZhc7NfkOpcqsInnpEf5 mx56B9vg+PLzfwHKtQ2vQ

    Here is how I have it set up:

    slot 1: flashbang (with energy manipulation macroes)
    slot 2: cloud maker
    slot 3: satchel charge

    slot 5: annihilation sticky bomb
    slot 6: fragmentation sticky bomb
    slot 7: scatter sticky bomb
    slot 8: detonate

    slot 10: time bomb

    I then have battle chemist, last ditch effort, bottomless bandolier, final countdown and grand explosion on a separate bar.

    basic sticky bomb rotation is just 5,6,7,8 repeat

    flashbang/satchel charge rotation is just 1,1,1,1,1,3,2 repeat

    You will still have to weave in time bomb when the reactive pops up and, use battle chemist to get the free Cloud Maker every 30 seconds. You also still have to trigger Last Ditch Effort and the Bottomless Bandolier and Final Countdown combination when appropriate.

    The technical reasons for no macros....here are the abilities with cooldows and why macroing them won't work:

    Time Bomb(10 seconds): in a macro it's going to go off when the 10 second cooldown is up. But you actually want to wait until 10 seconds AFTER the cooldown is up because damages increases every two seconds it's off cooldown to a maximum of 10 seconds.

    Battle Chemist(30 seconds): you only want to use this if you have zero or only a couple stacks of Chemical Mixture. You can't macro it behind Cloud Maker because Cloud Maker has no cooldown and if you macro it in front of Cloud Maker you would just waste most of the time. Btw....helpful hint for lazy folks...Cloud Maker has no cooldown...this means you can do an easy 120k aoe to a group of 8 mobs by spamming JUST this ability.

    Last Ditch Effort (1 minute): you could maybe macro this behind detonate but it's going to throw your rotation off because you can and should apply all sticky bombs with Latch Ditch Effort only when you have zero or a handful of charges. It's a charge free basic sticky bomb rotation.

    Bottomless Bandolier/Final Countdown (1 minute 30 seconds/1 minute): I suppose you could macro these, but I'm not sure it's gonna make things easier for you.
    Last edited by Geph; 08-24-2016 at 08:36 PM.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    That seems quite a bit lower than what other people tell me they're doing.

    Please link your stats and gear.
    Almost full T3 gear. I might be totally off base with the rotation or build, I just threw up what's working for me so far. This if VERY MUCH a work in progress and if anyone has anything to add that's working better, I welcome the input.

    Lotsa people were asking for something that at least worked for the new sab and I figure since nobody else has posted anything, I'd put something up until someone else posted something that works better.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Default Revised new Sab

    Just tried a revised spec and getting 50-80k more dps out of it:

    48 sab, 26 bd, 2 nb ( I really wish Magelo would update.

    Until then, Sab looks like this
    1
    1 5
    0 0
    5
    5 1 3
    5 0 2
    5 0 0
    5 0
    5 5

    Bd is 5 points in Quick Reflexes, 5 in Ambidextrous, 5 in Blade Finesse, 5 in Combat Expertise, 5 in Hack and Slash and 1 in Blade Tempo

    Nb is 2 in Burning Rage.

    Rotation is essentially the same as earlier except you omit the free rotations you get from Battle Chemist and Bottomless Bandolier and make sure you stack Blade Tempo with Final Countdown.

    Once again, this really is a WORK IN PROGRESS. If something significantly better comes along, I'll yank this guide. Right now it's just up so people who don't want to start from scratch have something to work from.
    Last edited by Geph; 08-24-2016 at 09:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    ok cool, ty for posting. ill check this out

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Have you tried 54 Sab 22BD? Or even 55 Sab 21 BD? Im full t2 geared with 2 t3 pieces (feet and belt) and im pulling around 450k atm, and i made the spec on my EU rogue about 5 minutes ago.

    Imo 48 sab is way too low to make it worthwhile, you miss out on Battle Chemist and Cloud Maker should be your highest damaging ability.

    http://i.imgur.com/KFigozr.jpg

    You could go with something like this, or drop a point from Volatility (which is what im gonna do) and put a point into Combat Expertise, for a 2% damage increase, because Detonate now does pretty much 0 damage so its not really worth putting a point there.

    The reason you go 54 is because you get Battle Chemist, you shouldnt be going lower than 50 just because of how much damage Cloud Maker actually does at 10 stacks of Chemical Mixture.

    You're better off having all 3 stickies on the target before you detonate them, as they get damage multipliers for having more stickies on the target.

    With Last Ditch Effort, burn all the current charges you have to below 10 (as low as 0 as possible) then use it, as it will consume all your charges, up to 15 charges consumed.

    Your sticky bombs take priority when you have charges, as Flashbang should be generally pretty low on your total damage anyway. If for some reason you're doing more damage with Flashbang than you are Satchel Charge, this either means you're just not using your finisher, or for some reason you're spamming Flashbang.

    Cloud Maker should be your top damaging ability by quite a bit (as said before), if for some reason it isnt this either means you're going over 10 stacks of battle mixture, in which case pay attention to that unless you want to lose a severe amount of dps, or you just use Cloud Maker randomly at any given stacks. Cloud Maker should work the same as your Time Bomb. Only use it when the reactive procs.

    Time Bomb - Fairly simple - use when reactives pops up.

    Annihilation Sticky bomb - the explosion of this ability only hits 8 targets however there isnt a set number on how many mobs the ground aoe it drops hits, not sure if this was intended or not?

    p.s. i dont know why you're using energy manip, if you take Planar Variation, use it at the last second of Blade Tempo and Final Countdown (as these both stack) it will carry the proc of Planar Variation for the remainder of the cast, so you get a few extra seconds of burst and it does around
    Last edited by Maltie; 08-25-2016 at 02:26 AM.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geph View Post
    The basics...

    The new sab has basically two modes:
    Mode one is sticky bomb mode and mode 2 is cloudmaker/chemical mode

    If more than 3 enemies, toggle on Grand Explosion. Also, when the reactive for time bomb pops up, hit it regardless of where you are in the rotation.

    The basic rotation for sticky bomb mode is fire off all three sticky bombs and then hit detonate.

    Open with 30 charges....go through two basic sticky bomb rotations to burn your charges then fire off Last Ditch Effort (it consumes zero charges but still applies all sticky bombs and hit Detonate. Then hit Bottomless Bandolier and Final Countdown and repeat your basic sticky bomb rotation for 20 seconds until Bottomless Bandolier runs out. When Bottomless Bandolier runs out you will again have 30 charges, so repeat the basic sticky bomb rotation 2 more times to zero out charges.

    At this point you switch to cloudmaker/chemical mode. Fire off Battle Chemist to give 10 Chemical mixtures and fire Cloud Maker. Then hit flashbang until you have 5 combo points and hit Satchel Charge and then hit Cloudmaker. After each 5x Flashbang/Satchel Charge rotation you should have approximately 10 Chem Mixtures so fire Cloudmaker after each Satchel Charge. After two or three Flachbang /Satchel Charge rotations you should have 30 charges. When you have 30 charges go ahead and fire off a pair of basic sticky bomb rotations. Continue Flashbang/Satchel Charge rotations until your Bottomless Bandolier and Final Countdown are back up. If they are back up and you have close to 30 charges, go ahead and start the whole rotation over again. If they are back up and you have less than 20 charges, do only a single sticky bomb rotation before you go to Last Ditch Effort Above. If you have less than 10 charges skip both the two initial basic sticky bomb rotations and go directly to Latch Ditch Effort above.
    Thought i'd deal with this seperately...

    There are no "modes" for this spec, you use sticky bombs as soon as you have charges for them, you do not start spamming Flashbang and Satchel Charge until you have 30 stacks again, you literally use them as you gain charges, they last 10 seconds and give a combo point, Flashbang damage is trash and should only be used as a last resort for when you have nothing else to do.

    I agree with using Last Ditch Effort at 0 charges (or as close to as possible), i dont agree with using "2 basic stickies" as you should have up all 3, considering they buff eachothers damage, Scatter Sticky Bomb should be your highest damaging ability, only because when all 3 bombs are applied and detonated on the same target, it will explode 3 times, meaning it will do the highest damage, Annihilation being the second and Frag bomb will be the lowest, because Frag bomb doesnt drop a dot, but still buffs the damage of Scatter Sticky.

    I do apologize if this comes off as brash, but don't take it personally

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maltie View Post
    Thought i'd deal with this seperately...

    There are no "modes" for this spec, you use sticky bombs as soon as you have charges for them, you do not start spamming Flashbang and Satchel Charge until you have 30 stacks again, you literally use them as you gain charges, they last 10 seconds and give a combo point, Flashbang damage is trash and should only be used as a last resort for when you have nothing else to do.

    I agree with using Last Ditch Effort at 0 charges (or as close to as possible), i dont agree with using "2 basic stickies" as you should have up all 3, considering they buff eachothers damage, Scatter Sticky Bomb should be your highest damaging ability, only because when all 3 bombs are applied and detonated on the same target, it will explode 3 times, meaning it will do the highest damage, Annihilation being the second and Frag bomb will be the lowest, because Frag bomb doesnt drop a dot, but still buffs the damage of Scatter Sticky.

    I do apologize if this comes off as brash, but don't take it personally
    I never said use '2 basic stickies' I said use 2 basic sticky ROTATIONS. That is, when you have 30 charges, you can fire off all three sticky bombs and a detonate TWICE. Each set of three sticky bombs uses up 15 charge.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    To be clear, I never said detonate with only 2 stickies. I said do two rotations....that is, sticky, sticky, sticky detonate...sticky sticky sticky detonate
    Last edited by Geph; 08-25-2016 at 05:03 AM.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maltie View Post
    Thought i'd deal with this seperately...

    There are no "modes" for this spec, you use sticky bombs as soon as you have charges for them, you do not start spamming Flashbang and Satchel Charge until you have 30 stacks again, you literally use them as you gain charges, they last 10 seconds and give a combo point, Flashbang damage is trash and should only be used as a last resort for when you have nothing else to do.

    I agree with using Last Ditch Effort at 0 charges (or as close to as possible), i dont agree with using "2 basic stickies" as you should have up all 3, considering they buff eachothers damage, Scatter Sticky Bomb should be your highest damaging ability, only because when all 3 bombs are applied and detonated on the same target, it will explode 3 times, meaning it will do the highest damage, Annihilation being the second and Frag bomb will be the lowest, because Frag bomb doesnt drop a dot, but still buffs the damage of Scatter Sticky.

    I do apologize if this comes off as brash, but don't take it personally
    If you've got a better rotation, throw it up so we can test it. Abstractions and suggestions are great, but until you put up a verifiable rotation, it's not really helpful

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    http://i.imgur.com/Oq1hiQS.jpg

    Some changes to the tree, as I didnt read the part about increasing Flashbangs damage, but Flashbang is pretty low in the damage breakdown anyway, so its better off putting points elsewhere
    Last edited by Maltie; 08-25-2016 at 06:26 AM.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maltie View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/Oq1hiQS.jpg

    Some changes to the tree, as I didnt read the part about increasing Flashbangs damage, but Flashbang is pretty low in the damage breakdown anyway, so its better off putting points elsewhere
    Cool. Useful input is appreciated. It sounds like you use a significantly different rotation. Can you provide a sample rotation so we can test it?

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    nm, saw someone else posted some more info on it, probably went through it more deeply than I did here ;)
    Last edited by DarkEternis; 08-29-2016 at 01:55 AM.

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