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Thread: Highest single target spec in raid

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    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Default [ROGUE] Best Single Target Damage Dealer In Raid.

    Hello guys, I'm currently trying to find the best single target spec for raiding. I've been doing some testing and I thought I should share it with you to get some different points of view about what's THE rogue spec at the moment.

    I will show you my current talent trees and my parse percentage, so if you see anything that seems incorrect, or something that might make you think I played the spec incorrectly, i'd appreciate it if you'd let me know. Sorry, my game language is in french so you'll have to rely on the icons.

    First of all let me show you my test results so far.
    All the parse I'm going to share with you are my average parse. All of them are 5 minutes long on a single target and without energy manipulation.

    54 Assassin / 22 Dance-Blade : http://imgur.com/BJKxUii
    result : 76k14

    58 Shadeborn / 18 Dance-Blade : http://imgur.com/efuUiXw
    result : 75k04 / 83k02 with Dark Bound http://imgur.com/0mMeNR2

    54 Nightblade / 21 Shadeborn : http://imgur.com/qWvYDf5
    result : 77k08

    61 Marksman / 10 DB / 5 NB :http://imgur.com/Yd1egf8
    result : 76k74

    44 Assassin / 32 Shadeborn : http://imgur.com/TlmOMiQ
    result : 85k21

    Things to know:

    54sin/22DB :
    -I couldn't use my vanish on dummy in order to keep track of my DPS more efficiently. We could add around 1-2k more on the dps to be more exact about the real value of the spec.
    -If you time your CD on raid burst you get a huge value out of that. So the dps gets a real boost on raid.
    -1 charge. No speed boost. No range. This spec is really weak to disconnect.

    58SB/18DB :
    - I've got 170 proc on a 5 minute parse ( exact same number for the NB/SB parse ) which is rather average.
    - It's a great dual target.
    - Pretty powerful CD, can give great value in raid. Even though I do not believe that this spec is more explosive than the 54sin/22DB.
    - 2 interrupt and enough dash to be mid air for the entire fight if needed. You're also able to land a few ranged attacks. Overall, you're not that affected by disconnect but if the tank stops moving around you'll be happier.
    -Spec might be a bit hard to get used to. Even if you've gotten the hang of it, it gets easier to apply the priority order.
    -Hit hard from 100%-90% and get another bonus from 35%-0%. ( If someone could tell me the potential of that 35% bonus damage I'd appreciate it as I didn't have a good opportunity to figure it out yet)
    -Use Bond of Night on single target

    54NB/21SB :
    -I'd like to thank huangchingho for his guide on the forum : http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...eave-spec.html
    - You've got a good burst which will give you a good dps bonus in raid.
    - This spec is really the hardest one to play by far. If you want to keep your dusk strike stacks at 5, refresh dots on timer, handle procs, use the free combo points from strangulate correctly AND stay on a perfect timing with your burst. You will need a lot of practice and a lot of focus playing this spec. All of this to be 20k lower than a shaman mono macro with the same gear. All my love to you Trion.
    - You've got a really good disconnect. With range attacks, 1 teleportation and 1 charge.
    - Your dual target is pretty good, but even harder than the single target cycle.
    - You get a really good DPS boost when the target is at 30% hp or less.
    - Do NOT use bond of night at all.

    61MM/10DB/5NB :
    - Well, it's the most basic rogue spec, you can do everything with it and get a really good dps for a ranged spec.

    44AS/32SB :
    -Highest single target damage
    -Super weak to disconnect, huge dps loss and not that much mobility, you have no range finisher and no sprint to help you follow the target. Both of your chage / dash have a really long CD.
    -The spec is a bit difficult to play but if you've been playing 61 or 54 assa / 61 or 58 shadowborn you'll get the hang of it really fast.

    Conclusion : The Assborn comes first and the Shadoblade comes second, no surprises there. The 3 other spec i tester a quite equal on dummy, but i'm pretty sure in raid that will changes.

    After some raid testing i've came up with a few lists to know what spec is better on what boss.
    All of them are ranked in a raid situation.

    Best Single target :
    1-Assborn
    2-ShadoBlade
    3-AssBlade and NightBorn
    5-Marksman

    Best Dual target :
    1-ShadoBlade
    3-AssBorn
    2-NightBorn
    The other spec have no duo

    Best Aoe :
    1-NightBorn
    2-Marksman
    The other specs have no AOE

    Best mobility :
    1-Marksman
    2-ShadoBlade
    3-NightBorn
    4-Assborn
    5-AssBlade

    Best disconnect :
    1-Marksman ( did you say disconnect ? )
    2-Nightborn
    3-ShadoBlade
    4-Assborn
    5-AssBlade

    Hardest spec to play :
    1-AssBorn
    1.5-NightBorn
    3-ShadoBlade
    4-AssBlade
    5-Marksman

    Utility :
    1-Marksman
    2-Shadoblade
    3- Other specs all have 1 kick

    We can clearly see that the AssBlade is under the other spec in every categories and the NightBorn is the most versatile.
    Here you have my though on what's best for what kind of needs.
    For example for Fyragnos you need a good mobility, potential disconnect, cleave.
    So i would pick the NightBorn for this fight. And it got a 10% overall damage boost when the target is under 30%HP, very welcome for the last boss phase. It's the same idea for Arak.


    I'd like to hear your thoughts and if you got any tips for any specs. Or if you don't have the time to try a spec and you want me to try it and give my thoughts on it, feel free to let me know.

    I've recently got a few P3 items, i though it might be interesting to make a scaling comparison to know what spec is best for low stuff.

    edit 1 : Thanks Trauumhaft for pointing out my mistakes. Use Bond of Night on single target with the 58SB/18DB
    Dps gain is around 8k self buff.

    edit 2 : Finally tested the Assborn, added to the list and made a few rank list to know what spec is best in each category. Thanks to Artewig for helping me correct a mistake.


    Kreezhem.
    Last edited by Kreezhem; 08-13-2016 at 07:00 AM. Reason: Update

  2. #2
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    54sin/22DB :
    -I couldn't use my vanish on dummy in order to keep track of my DPS more efficiently.
    Change your 0 point to ranger and use your pig. Should hold aggro long enough to use Jagged Strike. Not 100% reliable though. I think your Jagged Strike is a little low on there. Make sure you're using Slip Away or Thread of Death while Cloak and Dagger is still up if you aren't already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    58 shadeborn / 18 dance-blade : http://imgur.com/efuUiXw
    result : 75k04
    This spec will almost always parse better on a dummy simply because of Dark Bonds. Also, I believe that Warmaster's parses higher with this spec because Consuming Depths and Strangulate are not affected by Slayer's. Never did any heavy testing though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    61 marksman / 10 DB / 5 NB : http://imgur.com/Yd1egf8
    result : 76k76
    I think 10 Ranger/5 NB might still be a little higher, not 100% sure on that as I don't generally play MM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    Next on my list is the Assborn, which seems to be a spec that a lot of people believe to be the N1 rogue dps. I'll give you my conclusion then.
    Do it. Definitely my favorite spec to play and I use it almost exclusively (well, I did, until I was banished to perma-tank). It generally doesn't dummy parse as high as 58/18, but it does in raids and it's way more fun in my opinion. Just wish Consuming Depths was ogcd.
    Last edited by Artewig; 08-07-2016 at 08:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Change your 0 point to ranger and use your pig.
    It might sound dumb but i never thought of that. I'll try next time i train my 54ass/22DB
    Edit : I tried and even with the pig on the dummy, you get out of combat so your dots / debuffs go away.


    This spec will almost always parse better on a dummy simply because of Dark Bonds
    I am aware of that. But i don't understand why it's under the Nightblade / SB. Knowing that the NB/SB is made to shine when the target is under 30% hp. It makes me wonder even more if the 58SB is worth playing at all.

    I think 10 Ranger/5 NB might still be a little higher, not 100% sure on that as I don't generally play MM.
    I've done some testing on that and the ranger is better for low stuff. But the DB dex bonus get better when you hit an amount of dex. ( It's something like 8500 dex in MM/Ranger is the moment you need to change to DB. I can't remember exactly though )


    Do it. Definitely my favorite spec to play and I use it almost exclusively (well, I did, until I was banished to perma-tank). It generally doesn't dummy parse as high as 58/18, but it does in raids and it's way more fun in my opinion.
    Have you tried the NB/SB spec ? If yes does the assborn deal more damage in raid ? And what spec do you believe the hardest to play between those 2 ?


    Just wish Consuming Depths was ogcd.
    This would be very handy and avoid mistakes making me lose my dusk strike stacks.
    And it could give a little bonus to the rogue, bonus really needed knowing we"re last DPS class at the moment.


    well, I did, until I was banished to perma-tank
    My condolences.



    Thanks for your reply.

    Kreezhem
    Last edited by Kreezhem; 08-08-2016 at 03:24 PM.

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    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    It might sound dumb but i never thought of that. I'll try next time i train my 54ass/22DB



    I am aware of that. But i don't understand why it's under the Nightblade / SB. Knowing that the NB/SB is made to shine when the target is under 30% hp. It makes me wonder even more if the 58SB is worth playing at all.


    I've done some testing on that and the ranger is better for low stuff. But the DB dex bonus get better when you hit an amount of dex. ( It's something like 8500 dex in MM/Ranger is the moment you need to change to DB. I can't remember exactly though )



    Have you tried the NB/SB spec ? If yes does the assborn deal more damage in raid ? And what spec do you believe the hardest to play between those 2 ?



    This would be very handy and avoid mistakes making me lose my dusk strike stacks.
    And it could give a little bonus to the rogue, bonus really needed knowing we"re last DPS class at the moment.



    My condolences.



    Thanks for your reply.

    Kreezhem
    Not going to break up your post since I'm on my phone now, but I haven't played nb/sb. If there's any increase, it's so small that it's not really worth picking up in my opinion. Plus, I've never really liked nb. As to why 58/18 is below nb/sb, I honestly couldn't tell you because I really don't play either of those specs. When I first started learning Assborn, I gave up because it was sooo many keybinds compared to Assdancer (I use ~15 which is a lot for my inefficient keybind setup) and just went with 58/18. I didn't really like it and I hated how Dark Bonds inflated parses, so I picked up Assborn again and it clicked. In my opinion, Assborn is pretty easy to play, but it's quite a few buttons and it's not as easy to minmax.

    Rogues are not currently lowest in dps. Right now they're probably 2nd or 3rd. (Shaman being top, either Assborn or Maelstrom being second, then Harb and whatever it is that warriors do trailing behind). But yeah, Consuming Depths being ogcd is the one change I've been asking for with Assborn. It would make it much more smooth.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

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    Shield of Telara
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    Since it's in french I'm not 100% sure, but your Bond of Night seems to be missing in your parse.

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    Soulwalker yelani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    But yeah, Consuming Depths being ogcd is the one change I've been asking for with Assborn. It would make it much more smooth.
    Do you think that changing Consuming Depth's GCD would be a HUGE dps increase? Ive always thought that clipping it isnt good. Maybe for certain specs idk
    MOON MAN
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    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yelani View Post
    Do you think that changing Consuming Depth's GCD would be a HUGE dps increase? Ive always thought that clipping it isnt good. Maybe for certain specs idk
    It wouldn't be a huge increase. None of your combo point generating abilities hit that hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

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    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Since it's in french I'm not 100% sure, but your Bond of Night seems to be missing in your parse.
    Bond of Night is missing because i did only single target dps. But i obviously keep in mind the potential dps increase when you have to swap on adds or stuff.
    I just made my test on a single dummy.
    Do you think that changing Consuming Depth's GCD would be a HUGE dps increase? Ive always thought that clipping it isnt good. Maybe for certain specs idk
    If it was OGCD why would you clip it more than usual ?
    It will give you one less GCD in your cycle. So it will be easier to refresh dots. Plus during the phase burst you will be able to land 3 finished AND a few Consuming Depth's. So i do believe you will have a dps increase. I agree with Artewig that it will make it way more smooth than it is now.

    I picked up Assborn again and it clicked.
    Alright, i guess i'm gonna farm 900 plat for a new role and try this out. I'll give you my thoughts once i'm done.

    Kreezhem
    Last edited by Kreezhem; 08-08-2016 at 09:46 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    Bond of Night is missing because i did only single target dps. But i obviously keep in mind the potential dps increase when you have to swap on adds or stuff

    In 58/18 you're using Bond of Night. It's a single target gain.
    Last edited by Trauumhaft; 08-08-2016 at 07:04 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    In 58/18 you're using Bond of Night. It's a single target gain.
    Well.. i feel really dumb . I just did a fast 5 minutes parse with a bit of lag and my 58/18 SB just got around 10k more DPS ( WITH LAG ). So i'll have to try it out without lag and do the same for my LN/DB spec, then i'll try the ***/DB and give you my results.

    Thanks for pointing that out it give me a huge dps boost.

    Main post edited about the 58/18 SB/DB. Thanks to Trauumhaft

    Kreezhem
    Last edited by Kreezhem; 08-08-2016 at 09:47 AM.

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    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    edit 2 is made : Finally tested the Assborn, added to the list and made a few list to show what spec is better in which case. I also tried to touch up the presentation of the post to make it more clear and more agreeable to read.

    I'm waiting for you feedback

    Kreezhem

  12. #12
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Assborn has dual target as well. Just stick Bond of Night on the other target. Additionally, Assborn shouldn't have energy issues so feel free to use Energy Manipulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Assborn has dual target as well. Just stick Bond of Night on the other target. Additionally, Assborn shouldn't have energy issues so feel free to use Energy Manipulation.
    Thanks for pointing that out, i'm correcting that right now.

    Dual target parse :
    Nightborn : 88k5
    Assborn : 94k
    ShadoBlade : 97k

    note : I got underaverage proc on NightBorn and ShadoBlade. You could add around 1k DPS to have the average DPS.

    As for the energie manipulation, I do not use it in parse to make all spec equal. In raid obviously you use energy manipulation. If you wish to know the dummy DPS of a spec with Energy Manipulation, you take the DPS of the spec and add 2k5 and you got the true DPS of the spec.

    Kreezhem
    Last edited by Kreezhem; 08-13-2016 at 06:58 AM.

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    i'm pretty much sure, this is the highest st dps output in raid: http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#!...y08g/wn24a8/tf

    playstyle is very straight forward, have fun testing

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    I'm gonna farm 900plat and try that out that spec.
    Is the gameplay like this :
    Refresh 2 Shaborn dots, the finisher and the 10% buff.
    No Dusk Strike i guess ? No point in primal death or nightstalker.

    And you just build build build finish ?

    It seems too easy for a really high dps spec

    Kreezhem
    Last edited by Kreezhem; 08-14-2016 at 04:32 PM.

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