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Thread: Bards - to tweak or not to tweak?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Bards - to tweak or not to tweak?

    Okay, so, depending on who you ask my main spec is Bard and I love it, don't get me wrong, but.. I think it could use a little help.. with everything. Since it's no 1 role it's weak in raid healing, aoe damage, and st damage [without hybriding it, which 61 bard is recommended for raiding (OotP and VoJ ftw)].

    Here's what I'm thinking: Take away Motif of Encouragement, instead make so that you learn Verse of Captivation at 36 points. Make Resonance a 3 point thing, giving 2% per point. Take the extra 3 points, replace the spot where Verse of Captivation would be and add a thing to make it so that each point adds 1 more target to Coda of Fury and Coda of Restoration and 10% more damage to Coda of Wrath, call it Reverberation or somethin.

    So, do you yall think thay would make Bard too OP or leave Bard as is? Or what changes would yall suggest?
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  2. #2
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    I would love just one boss fight, somewhere, that had a use for Motif of Encouragement. I'm actually amazed that there hasn't been one yet since this is the one skill that's remained in the game since it's inception.

    That said, no, I don't think your suggestions should be implemented. Not because it would be largely OP, just that it does against the meta. As it stands, all AoE skills in souls that are primarily ST only hit 5 targets. Your suggestion would break that meta.

    If they are going to change anything, it should be fixing the rotation so that Power Chord is actually useful.

    That said, Bard is in a fine place right now. There are other souls that should be worked on before bard.

  3. #3
    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hersheykisses View Post
    Okay, so, depending on who you ask my main spec is Bard and I love it, don't get me wrong, but.. I think it could use a little help.. with everything. Since it's no 1 role it's weak in raid healing, aoe damage, and st damage [without hybriding it, which 61 bard is recommended for raiding (OotP and VoJ ftw)].

    Here's what I'm thinking: Take away Motif of Encouragement, instead make so that you learn Verse of Captivation at 36 points. Make Resonance a 3 point thing, giving 2% per point. Take the extra 3 points, replace the spot where Verse of Captivation would be and add a thing to make it so that each point adds 1 more target to Coda of Fury and Coda of Restoration and 10% more damage to Coda of Wrath, call it Reverberation or somethin.

    So, do you yall think thay would make Bard too OP or leave Bard as is? Or what changes would yall suggest?

    Here is my opinion.
    Bard is a great and solid spec, does its job really well and has some versatility with different subsouls. I think bard is an okay spec right now.

    That said, it still lacks dps to compete with Oracle, since oracle does everything a Bard does but better. If somehow that could have some attention, our class would appreciate it.
    I'd like them to fix things like the disparity between mage supports and other supports. Either give the bards/oracle the option to spec as hybrids and keep Orchestra or bring mages in line.

  4. #4
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    Personally my only concern is how awkward the rotation is. You use a channel that gives 3 combo points to get to 5 and you're also using on cd which doesn't award a combo point. I wish they'd adjust it so it's a bit smoother. Sure you could use power chord, but that's not optimal.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasacrim View Post
    Here is my opinion.
    Bard is a great and solid spec, does its job really well and has some versatility with different subsouls. I think bard is an okay spec right now.
    It's OP when at low levels, especially in PvP.
    Rotation is only 4 abilities.

    From a dps stand point theirs only two thing that make it important in a raid, Orchestra of the Planes (15% Dmg) and Resonance (5% Stats), everything else is pitterful.

    I'd like them to fix things like the disparity between mage supports and other supports. Either give the bards/oracle the option to spec as hybrids and keep Orchestra or bring mages in line.
    To makes hybrids possible in raiding Orchestra of the Planes would need to be at least a 36 point ability, Though what would be the point of going to 61 points after you get that ability, making hybrids the only option.

    In the end wouldn't be better just to change Orchestra of the Planes into Flaring Power/Command to Attack and give Bard all the needed raid buffs that Archon and Beastmaster have. So instead of 2 different support classes needed a raid would only need to waste one spot.
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  6. #6
    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    It's OP when at low levels, especially in PvP.
    Rotation is only 4 abilities.
    Its strong strictly in low level PvP and so are several other specs across classes. Low level PvP is nonexistent, even if it was given class balance attention, there isnt any reason to actually pvp at low levels.

    To makes hybrids possible in raiding Orchestra of the Planes would need to be at least a 36 point ability, Though what would be the point of going to 61 points after you get that ability, making hybrids the only option.
    There is no point whatsoever, same way there is no point of going 61 archon.
    Bring mages in line, make Flaring a 61 pointer. And tbh thats a lot less problematic than risk unintended broken hybrids.
    Also, the best option would never be a 36 pointer orchestra.



    In the end wouldn't be better just to change Orchestra of the Planes into Flaring Power/Command to Attack and give Bard all the needed raid buffs that Archon and Beastmaster have. So instead of 2 different support classes needed a raid would only need to waste one spot.
    No it wouldnt.
    Destroys the interaction between supports, making the synergy between players irrelevant as far as raid cds go.
    Removes a unique raid slot with a unique playstyle from the game.

    Part of what makes raiding fun is how everything works together, tank healers working with different kind of raid healers sync/rotating cooldowns as raid mechanics demand it, followed by the supports working together and the dpsers working with eachother and with the supports.
    I enjoy that diversity and the kind of changes that you are suggesting is what I personally dislike.

    The ideal would be all support classes doing equivalent dps and working paired as they do now, without any huge changes or big soul reworks.
    Specs work fine, now make them perform equaly.
    Last edited by Nasacrim; 03-09-2016 at 04:51 PM.

  7. #7
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    Id like too see power chord change the healing for cadence to shielding, as bard is less dps make it more desirable in an healing intense fight.. Also would like verse of vitality to change to a shield aswell... Bard shud be pumping out significantly more shields than oracle to supplement the dps difference
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  8. #8
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    There is no significant difference in dps between bards and oracles, just look at PT support leaderboards. It's a fairly boring spec, but very far down on the list of souls I would like to see changes to.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauum View Post
    There is no significant difference in dps between bards and oracles, just look at PT support leaderboards. It's a fairly boring spec, but very far down on the list of souls I would like to see changes to.
    I looked at the support leaderboards for fauxmire and enigma which are the two best single target parse dummies. Bard at 65k and oracle at 75k. It's quite significant.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I looked at the support leaderboards for fauxmire and enigma which are the two best single target parse dummies. Bard at 65k and oracle at 75k. It's quite significant.
    Cool - let's cherry pick the evidence we want people to see in order to prove our point. Yes in the top 10 support for Fauxmire listed on Prancing Turtle you find that Insanesystem@Gelidra did an amazing 75.035k dps - the other 9 oracles ranged from 61.4k - 65.7k dps. All 10 Bards were 61.4 - 65.7k dps. To my eye we have 2 specs from different classes that perform equally in dps and support functions with 1 player who needs to be nerfed.

    Go ahead and buff bard dps as long as oracle gets a similar dps buff at the same time. On a side note I do find it interesting that out of the top 10 kills listed for Fauxmire on Prancing Turtle 8 guilds chose to bring a Bard and 2 guilds chose to bring an Oracle. While this sample is entirely too small and I cannot account for player skill, player role preferences, and all the other decision criteria that a raid leader must consider when choosing the comp - from just this data is appears that 8 out of 10 guilds recommend Bard over Oracle for Fauxmire kills.

  11. #11
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    That's what I thought as well, it's one parse that's 10k ahead of both bards and other oracles. Granted there are generally not many oracle parses on there, but I figured it's just a lucky mix of perfect cd management, crit rng, gear and whatnot. Either that or insanesystem is the only cleric in the world playing oracle correctly.

  12. #12
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    Insanesystem's ability breakdown is very different from the rest of the oracles so I guess he is just the only oracle who knows how to play the spec.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    appears that 8 out of 10 guilds recommend Bard over Oracle for Fauxmire kills.
    You vastly overestimate the availability of clerics. Rogues breed like flies.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    You vastly overestimate the availability of clerics. Rogues breed like flies.
    Meh - our dashboard boasts 11 raid ready clerics and 12 raid ready rogues, this difference does not appear significant.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    from just this data is appears that 8 out of 10 guilds recommend Bard over Oracle for Fauxmire kills.
    Bard can get armor debuff. Armor debuff op


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