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Thread: "Life Insurance" bug

  1. #1
    Shadowlander Lotusss's Avatar
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    Default "Life Insurance" bug

    Hello Rogues,

    I believe, "Life Insurance" in Physician, is bugged.

    Below is my knowledge of the ability and what I think is wrong

    When Life Insurance is a cast on a target, the ability gives the target 2 independent buffs:
    1. Absorbs x amount of incoming damage up to 85%
    2. If the target receives a killing blow, restores 50% health. - This the bugged buff

    From my experience on numerous occasions in the last several months (even before shielding changes and the changes to make Life Insurance 2 buffs) the second buff listed does not proc AT ALL and fails ~30% of the time. It does NOT restore 50% health and the target dies.

    A few notes
    1. I do not use 61 physician enough in PVE and have NOT seen this bug happen in any PVE content.
    2. The bug seems to happen primarily in instanced PVP. I noticed the proc "restore 50% when receiving a killing blow" has a higher chance of failing under three conditions:
    i. Burst Damage (this one seems to be the highest suspect to look into)
    ii. Reaver dots/Marksman attacks
    iii. Higher chance of failure if damage is incoming from multiple targets to proc
    3. Casted upon an ally or @self is not a variable - restore 50% health proc fails ~30% of the time on both.

    Here is a screenshot demonstrating my findings in a warfront

    1. The screenshot shows Life Insurance has been casted on myself and I receive 2 buffs, working as intended
    2. I took some damage - the buff from Life Insurance that absorbs 85% of incoming damage has worn off, working as intended
    3. After taking some more damage, "Lotusss has been slain", with NO proc activating to restore 50% of my health. There was no proc and 0 health was restored, not working as intended
    4. A few lines down in the combat log: "Life Insurance fades from Lotusss"- This buff was suppose to restore 50% health after recieving a killing blow

    Conclusion
    I hope someone takes a look at this and fixes the proc to ALWAYS restore 50% when receiving a killing blow. If more screenshots are necessary I can easily provide them since this happens to me on a daily basis in instanced PVP. It's a shame that a 61 point talent for a paid soul is unreliable.

    Have any Rogues run into this issue?

    Edit1: Here(1) is a youtube video showing Life Insurance not proccing. Life Insurance had about 5s left on the buff and I was not purged. This wasn't hard to capture since the fail rate of the ability is ~30%.
    I used VLC media player to slow down the clip to make it easier to spot.

    Edit2: I recorded another video(2) and here is the combatlog screenshot. Vex is the killing blow, icy wrath is the OVERKILL.

    I believe Cupcakey's theory is true:
    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    Couple things I have noticed between your screenshot, video, and my own screenshots when I tested this earlier:

    It looks like trinket/greater procs and damaging mastery procs (note the procs and not "abilities") that are the overkilling damage taken are somehow not triggering Life's Insurance.
    Last edited by Lotusss; 11-13-2015 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Added a video link to show exactly what I'm talking about

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara
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    Yeap ive seen life insurance failing to proc in pvp multiple times i thought it was me just been bad or rushing it...nice to know i wasnt crazy.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    nice to know i wasnt crazy.
    Well....

    I've noticed it a few times, but never really considered it being bugged. I always just assumed I missed it.
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  4. #4
    Shadowlander Lotusss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    Well....

    I've noticed it a few times, but never really considered it being bugged. I always just assumed I missed it.
    Perhaps the "miss" mechanic that was implemented earlier in the expansion still applies to "Life Insurance"?

    Maybe the physician soul got looked over when they "fixed" missing mechanics. Viral Infection still misses in instanced PVP and on mobs in open world.
    Last edited by Lotusss; 11-10-2015 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Updated Viral Infection Hyperlink

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotusss View Post
    Viral Infection still misses in instanced PVP and on mobs in open world.
    Whoa, they're changing Viral Infection?

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    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Last edited by Muspel; 11-10-2015 at 09:16 AM.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander Lotusss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldorian View Post
    Whoa, they're changing Viral Infection?
    Not that I'm aware of. I was saying it could use a change because miss mechanics still apply to the ability at a very high rate.

    I do agree a purge can remove both buffs. However, that is not the case for me when I read combat logs. Inq removes buffs and has dots - I can't recall a time where Life Insurance hasn't properly procced with an Inq. Buffs remove in this order: First on, first off. I have to many buffs up, applied before Life Insurance, for Life Insurance to be purged. A relevant example of this would be a Defiler's Unstable Transformation I've never been able to purge a defiler's Unstable Transformation even though it can be purged, see buff remove rule. Over the last few months I went through several combat logs and never saw Life Insurance being purged off.

    Did you even read the combat log in my original post following a real scenario of this happening - where it is a clear case of this happening - or simply decide to play devil's advocate to make yourself feel relevant around the rogue forums?

    I'm guessing the latter

    Thanks for the bump though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotusss View Post
    Not that I'm aware of. I was saying it could use a change because miss mechanics still apply to the ability at a very high rate.
    I was going by your link (which is pointing to the PTS), and it's damage on finishers / combo point, with only a 1m debuff. Maybe it's just an old version that magelo hasn't updated.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander Lotusss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldorian View Post
    I was going by your link (which is pointing to the PTS), and it's damage on finishers / combo point, with only a 1m debuff. Maybe it's just an old version that magelo hasn't updated.
    I think you're right, Magelo hasn't updated it. On both live and pts it is: Viral Infection
    Updated my link in the previous post. Thanks!

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotusss View Post
    I do agree a purge can remove both buffs. However, that is not the case for me when I read combat logs. Inq removes buffs and has dots - I can't recall a time where Life Insurance hasn't properly procced with an Inq. Buffs remove in this order: First on, first off. I have to many buffs up, applied before Life Insurance, for Life Insurance to be purged. A relevant example of this would be a Defiler's Unstable Transformation I've never been able to purge a defiler's Unstable Transformation even though it can be purged, see buff remove rule. Over the last few months I went through several combat logs and never saw Life Insurance being purged off.
    IIRC, the combat log isn't always great about tracking when buffs are purged, especially if there are multiple buffs with the same name. Also, while it is difficult to fully purge someone, it is still very doable if you use Eradicate on cooldown, and if you're healing, then you're going to be a purge magnet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lotusss View Post
    Did you even read the combat log in my original post following a real scenario of this happening - where it is a clear case of this happening
    That combat log also shows Life Insurance proccing. Another problem that the combat log has sometimes is not processing simultaneous events very well-- below the part where it says you died, it says that you took 1954 damage from an Empowered Shot, with 10k-ish damage being "ignored"-- which is the phrasing that is used when an effect like Life Insurance triggers.

    Also,
    Quote Originally Posted by Lotusss View Post
    Higher chance of failure if damage is incoming from multiple targets to proc
    This sounds like the kind of situation where you might have multiple people purging you, which would further increase the chances of LI being removed.

    Look, I'm not saying that it's impossible that there's a bug-- Defer Death, for instance, used to have a very brief delay between using the ability and actually applying the "prevent death" effect, which is why it was occasionally possible for the ability to go on cooldown and for you to die the instant after you pressed it. My point is that what you're seeing isn't necessarily a glitch, and may just be the result of combat log unreliability.
    Last edited by Muspel; 11-10-2015 at 11:14 AM.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    IIRC, the combat log isn't always great about tracking when buffs are purged, especially if there are multiple buffs with the same name. Also, while it is difficult to fully purge someone, it is still very doable if you use Eradicate on cooldown, and if you're healing, then you're going to be a purge magnet.


    That combat log also shows Life Insurance proccing. Another problem that the combat log has sometimes is not processing simultaneous events very well-- below the part where it says you died, it says that you took 1954 damage from an Empowered Shot, with 10k-ish damage being "ignored"-- which is the phrasing that is used when an effect like Life Insurance triggers.

    Also,

    This sounds like the kind of situation where you might have multiple people purging you, which would further increase the chances of LI being removed.

    Look, I'm not saying that it's impossible that there's a bug-- Defer Death, for instance, used to have a very brief delay between using the ability and actually applying the "prevent death" effect, which is why it was occasionally possible for the ability to go on cooldown and for you to die the instant after you pressed it. My point is that what you're seeing isn't necessarily a glitch, and may just be the result of combat log unreliability.
    The combat log shows LI being applied to his character. It also shows the absorb applied being consumed by incoming damage with the first "Lotusss's Life Insurance fades from Lotusss" as the damage line after it displays 559 damage absorbed with a 1008 damage hit, and as we all know shields mitigate 85% of incoming damage. 559 ≠ 85% of 1567.

    At the end you see LI fade with character death along with Simultaneous Treatment (obviously the buff and not the proc'd shield, as he received no overhealing from himself) and the HoT from Maintenance Therapy, both of which are purgable and due to order of operations would have been removed before Life Insurance if it were due to purges.

    The log clearly shows Life Insurance failed to activate upon receiving a killing blow, despite being present on his character at the time of death.
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  12. #12
    Shadowlander Lotusss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    IIRC, the combat log isn't always great about tracking when buffs are purged, especially if there are multiple buffs with the same name. Also, while it is difficult to fully purge someone, it is still very doable if you use Eradicate on cooldown, and if you're healing, then you're going to be a purge magnet.
    Purging through all my buffs (with talents in the soul tree that proc buffs) and my teammates buffs (applied on me) is highly unlikely to reach Life Insurance to make it purgeable within <10s of the cast. In the current meta it is extremely difficult to achieve if you're rebuffing (which I do, and have kalerts for) and without BM spam purge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    That combat log also shows Life Insurance proccing. Another problem that the combat log has sometimes is not processing simultaneous events very well-- below the part where it says you died, it says that you took 1954 damage from an Empowered Shot, with 10k-ish damage being "ignored"-- which is the phrasing that is used when an effect like Life Insurance triggers.

    Also,

    This sounds like the kind of situation where you might have multiple people purging you, which would further increase the chances of LI being removed.
    I think that is damage I took after I hit respawn.

    I added a video to my original post showing exactly what I'm talking about. Let me know what you think.
    Last edited by Lotusss; 11-10-2015 at 01:25 PM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotusss View Post
    I added a video to my original post showing exactly what I'm talking about. Let me know what you think.
    Couple things I have noticed between your screenshot, video, and my own screenshots when I tested this earlier:

    It looks like trinket/greater procs and damaging mastery procs (note the procs and not "abilities") that are the overkilling damage taken are somehow not triggering Life's Insurance. Not sure about weapon dmg procs since I don't have screenshots to add that into the mix, but I'll try to keep testing later.
    • 1st screenshot: Through the Ether overkill
    • Video: Warlord's Greater Rotward overkill (even though you can't see it in the combat log, you can see it from the scrolling text combat)
    • Desublimation trinket proc overkill

    And in instances where Life's Insurance DID work:

    That's really my only theory I have as to why it doesn't work just based off of the few instances. Again, I'll try to keep testing it out to see. It could explain why it seems so random--would have to luck out with a proc getting the kb. Might be easier to test it in a controlled duel.
    Last edited by Riane; 11-10-2015 at 02:22 PM.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Lotusss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    Couple things I have noticed between your screenshot, video, and my own screenshots when I tested this earlier:

    It looks like trinket/greater procs and damaging mastery procs (note the procs and not "abilities") that are the overkilling ability are somehow not triggering Life's Insurance. Not sure about weapon dmg procs since I don't have screenshots to add that into the mix, but I'll try to keep testing later.
    • 1st screenshot: Through the Ether overkill
    • Video: Warlord's Greater Rotward overkill (even though you can't see it in the combat log, you can see it from the scrolling text combat)
    • Desublimation trinket proc overkill

    And in instances where Life's Insurance DID work:

    That's really my only theory I have as to why it doesn't work just based off of the few instances. Again, I'll try to keep testing it out to see. It could explain why it seems so random--would have to luck out with a proc getting the kb. Might be easier to test it in a controlled duel.
    Your theory may be correct. I recorded another video(2) and here is the combatlog screenshot. Vex is the killing blow, icy wrath is the OVERKILL.

    I hope a dev responds to this thread. You have all the information needed to start your search for why this ability isn't working correctly.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riane View Post
    It looks like trinket/greater procs and damaging mastery procs (note the procs and not "abilities") that are the overkilling damage taken are somehow not triggering Life's Insurance.
    Hm. I wonder if this is a corner case of the "procs cannot proc other procs" rule, since Life Insurance is, itself, a proc (I think).
    Last edited by Muspel; 11-11-2015 at 12:48 PM.

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