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Thread: The rogue forums

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    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    Default The rogue forums

    So i have been thinking about how the rogue forums are dead compared to the other classes (minus primalist, because its new) and ways to help it improve. i was looking at the clerics discussions and they have a nice post up on what people believe would be good for their class. So i would like that here in one spot. Maybe vladd would post on it if we as a community discuss good ideas in which to improve our class from quality of life to actual mechanic tuning. please i beg of you don't let the conversation become troll, this is our class. I'm talking from a pve perspective.please post your idea's fully. don't just say its bad or good with no reasoning behind it. it would make you look incompetent. So the question what could we do to improve on either dps or quality of life on assassin and the other specs.

    Assassin this is our single target soul it doesn't have any AOE and utility in pve. so it should be a high sustain dps soul. i'm not to good at the spec but i have seen many people use the hybrid over regular 61 assassin.

    Bard- surprisingly is fun and does its job well except it doesn't compare to the dps of the other supports in my opinion. i personally think we should have it heal a little more instead of .5 from the soul gift make it .75 and have verse of occlusion effected by modulation.

    Bladedancer just recently got changes and in my opinion its suppose to be our aoe burst spec and good ST it is currently running properly.

    Marksman- i think it has pretty nice initial burst but the sustain is lacking. it has some utility but for our primary ranged dps soul i think it should have more sustain to it. I could be wrong.

    Nightblade- in my opinion, this is our go to pvp spec it has alot burst dmg some healing,dmg mitigation and cc. in pve i don't see alot of people playing the spec so i cant downplay it. if anyone knows of some cool ideas for pve please add some.

    Physician- is an awesome healing soul, every since i first played it i didn't have to much problems but there is a couple things you can change or remove.
    .Pandemic is a toggle that allows surgical strike and plasma strike to damage up to 5 targets and increasing the healing of those abilities by 50%. Personally i would have this changed up to " All physician healing and absorb combo point generating abilities and finishers effect up to 10 allies at 70% less effectiveness cannot be used in pvp.
    .Plasma strike- can be removed
    .surgical strike-can be removed
    i don't know what to replace them with or just turn them into a buff.

    Ranger- where should i start, there is a lot of thing wrong with this soul but to keep it as it is when we have marksman its pointless the whole soul can go. if you have some suggestions feel free to add them here.

    Riftstalker- I don't have much problems with the tanking soul i just wish we had a ranged pull.

    Sab- People said they don't like it because its mindless as well as other things. i don't have much to offer in this department. i think its fine in the sense i can full pay attention to the raid environment without having to worry about my rotation (because its 1 button).

    Tactician- i said this a while ago but people didn't agree, i think it should just be an aoe healing soul keep some of the support stuff in there but change it to group heal.


    Well listed above is my personal opinion, please list yours as well as some good ideas, looking for some good feedback. hope we can agree as a comunity then make our class better thank you all.
    Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance

  2. #2
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    Other than both 61NB and 61BD's ST dps is way too low compare to 61 riftblade, rogue is in good place.

    Sure MM is lower dps than tempest in both ST and AoE but it's still ok.

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    Considering the DPS Mage support is allowed to generate Bard DPS is a joke.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trufrost View Post
    So i have been thinking about how the rogue forums are dead compared to the other classes (minus primalist, because its new) and ways to help it improve. i was looking at the clerics discussions and they have a nice post up on what people believe would be good for their class. So i would like that here in one spot. Maybe vladd would post on it if we as a community discuss good ideas in which to improve our class from quality of life to actual mechanic tuning. please i beg of you don't let the conversation become troll, this is our class. I'm talking from a pve perspective.please post your idea's fully. don't just say its bad or good with no reasoning behind it. it would make you look incompetent. So the question what could we do to improve on either dps or quality of life on assassin and the other specs.

    Assassin this is our single target soul it doesn't have any AOE and utility in pve. so it should be a high sustain dps soul. i'm not to good at the spec but i have seen many people use the hybrid over regular 61 assassin.

    Bard- surprisingly is fun and does its job well except it doesn't compare to the dps of the other supports in my opinion. i personally think we should have it heal a little more instead of .5 from the soul gift make it .75 and have verse of occlusion effected by modulation.

    Bladedancer just recently got changes and in my opinion its suppose to be our aoe burst spec and good ST it is currently running properly.

    Marksman- i think it has pretty nice initial burst but the sustain is lacking. it has some utility but for our primary ranged dps soul i think it should have more sustain to it. I could be wrong.

    Nightblade- in my opinion, this is our go to pvp spec it has alot burst dmg some healing,dmg mitigation and cc. in pve i don't see alot of people playing the spec so i cant downplay it. if anyone knows of some cool ideas for pve please add some.

    Physician- is an awesome healing soul, every since i first played it i didn't have to much problems but there is a couple things you can change or remove.
    .Pandemic is a toggle that allows surgical strike and plasma strike to damage up to 5 targets and increasing the healing of those abilities by 50%. Personally i would have this changed up to " All physician healing and absorb combo point generating abilities and finishers effect up to 10 allies at 70% less effectiveness cannot be used in pvp.
    .Plasma strike- can be removed
    .surgical strike-can be removed
    i don't know what to replace them with or just turn them into a buff.

    Ranger- where should i start, there is a lot of thing wrong with this soul but to keep it as it is when we have marksman its pointless the whole soul can go. if you have some suggestions feel free to add them here.

    Riftstalker- I don't have much problems with the tanking soul i just wish we had a ranged pull.

    Sab- People said they don't like it because its mindless as well as other things. i don't have much to offer in this department. i think its fine in the sense i can full pay attention to the raid environment without having to worry about my rotation (because its 1 button).

    Tactician- i said this a while ago but people didn't agree, i think it should just be an aoe healing soul keep some of the support stuff in there but change it to group heal.


    Well listed above is my personal opinion, please list yours as well as some good ideas, looking for some good feedback. hope we can agree as a comunity then make our class better thank you all.
    Assassin suffers too much from disconnects to be as viable as 38/38 whereas other melee St souls such as paragon and harb have great ways yo deal with disconnects.

    MM sustain is actually higher than pyromancer and inquisitor, so I have no idea what you mean when you say it's lacking.

    Nightblade can be seen as Bladedancer, except it does more ST damage and the AoE it brings is more sustain over burst, but it sustains higher AoE.

    bard needs to bring more oomph, it needs either better healing or dps imo because right now it's compared to oracle which outclasses it in many ways.

    physician has no place in the current raid environment except for phys/tact because purifier outshines every single other single target healing soul in the game currently.

    ranger is intended to be a soloing build and not really a competitive dps soul. I'm pretty sure it's getting some changes soonish.

    Bladedancer does it's job incredibly well, I think the single target should go up a little, but that's just me.

    61 sab is insanely underrated by the playerbase because almost no one plays it properly. 54 is easier to play, has more mobility, and is only slightly less DPSin perfect conditions which is why it's more popular.

    Tactician is like a jack of all trades master of none spec which is why it's not seen much play. It is, however, an incredibly potent soul to hybrid with other souls whether for dps or healing. 61 tact has had some meaningfulness before, but that was T1 storm legion and only during the crucia fight.

    riftstalker is also a very solid spec.

    I don't think anything really needs changing as rogue currently has very strong hybrids that fill the gaps that the 61 point souls are missing like strong ST disconnect dps and a strong AoE healing set up. I'd rather see purifier nerfed to bring 61 phys back into the discussion (as well as other ST healing souls getting some play again). The only thing rogue really lacks is... well nothing because every soul outside of ranger(which again isn't designed to be competitive) sees a fair amount of use in raids.


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  5. #5
    Rift Chaser ILikeOranges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    I don't think anything really needs changing as rogue currently has very strong hybrids that fill the gaps that the 61 point souls are missing like strong ST disconnect dps and a strong AoE healing set up. I'd rather see purifier nerfed to bring 61 phys back into the discussion (as well as other ST healing souls getting some play again). The only thing rogue really lacks is... well nothing because every soul outside of ranger(which again isn't designed to be competitive) sees a fair amount of use in raids.
    +1 to That.

    We're in a good well rounded position atm, sure classes like ranger, sab, tactician aren't the best, but compared to other classes we're really well off with the number of choices we have. Personally I wouldn't really want much to change as it just leads to the possibility of screwing something else up in the process
    Last edited by ILikeOranges; 10-19-2015 at 03:15 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post

    MM sustain is actually higher than pyromancer and inquisitor, so I have no idea what you mean when you say it's lacking.
    let me answer that...

    90% of the rogues dont know how to play mm(including all those than only play mm for whatever reason...)

    We are in such a good spot right now, even after zerker nerf. we can choose a ton of diferent specs that do job perfectly fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    We are in such a good spot right now, even after zerker nerf. we can choose a ton of diferent specs that do job perfectly fine.
    I agree. Really wish we had a designated AoE healing soul, but that's not necessary and could really use a targeted Riftstalker pull, but other than that, it's more QoL than functionality. Right now Rogues can choose between MM, Assassin, nb/sin, and nb and still be relatively competitive.
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  8. #8
    Phs
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    Its always so nice and positive in rogue threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cladari View Post
    Considering the DPS Mage support is allowed to generate Bard DPS is a joke.
    You're comparing Apples to Oranges. Archon doesn't heal in anyway. Compare Bard to Oracle. That's where its downfalls show compared.
    Last edited by Phs; 10-19-2015 at 07:04 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    could really use a targeted Riftstalker pull
    Weeeeell, I've been pestering Vladd every chance I get, and it might happen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    I agree. Really wish we had a designated AoE healing soul, but that's not necessary and could really use a targeted Riftstalker pull, but other than that, it's more QoL than functionality. Right now Rogues can choose between MM, Assassin, nb/sin, and nb and still be relatively competitive.
    Add asadancer and bladedancer to that list.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    Add asadancer and bladedancer to that list.
    True. Haven't played around with Sin/BD since 3.4 but I should.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

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    Guys how can we convince Vladd to fix rogue issues if you act all fluffy and content?

    BD single target dps is still a bit too low and some of the attacks still scale from both weapons.
    Rogues have very poor access to CC breaks compared to other callings.
    Ranger is basically a wasted soul at the moment and tactician is only used in phys/tact hybrid.
    Weapon swaps between melee/ranged make hybridizing between melee and ranged attacks basically impossible and don't work properly in macros.
    Rogue self healing options are very weak and the best ones are located in souls that are not suitable for doing damage (tactician and riftstalker).

    Other than that it's largely some quality of life stuff and bug fixes.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple xosomething's Avatar
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    CC breaks and purge also a problem for riftstalker...
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    BD ST could use a bit more boost it should be just as competitive as nb or sin. I am so tired of the AoE argument for BD (Sab is rogues aoe soul and is actually quite good if played well) BD has only 4 aoe abilities NB also has 4 aoe abilities and better disconnect abilities as well as stealth. Two of the primary mechanics you learn through leveling with bd is dance cycling and keen/binary with quick and precision strike. The dance rotation and combat rotation require effort which should result in more reward.

    Tact could use some better dps scaling and some better buff/debuffs as it is supposed to be a support soul so its utility should be on par with bard.

    Ranged pull for Stalker would be nice.

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Guys how can we convince Vladd to fix rogue issues if you act all fluffy and content?

    BD single target dps is still a bit too low and some of the attacks still scale from both weapons.
    Rogues have very poor access to CC breaks compared to other callings.
    Ranger is basically a wasted soul at the moment and tactician is only used in phys/tact hybrid.
    Weapon swaps between melee/ranged make hybridizing between melee and ranged attacks basically impossible and don't work properly in macros.
    Rogue self healing options are very weak and the best ones are located in souls that are not suitable for doing damage (tactician and riftstalker).

    Other than that it's largely some quality of life stuff and bug fixes.
    Bladedancer is currently my primary concern. T3 is around the corner and we're coming up on the holidays so whatever changes go through next are likely to be the last until mid-January when the bulk of progression is already over. Warriors have Paragon to compete with Assassin/NBSin/Assdancer, Tempest to compete with Marksman, but we as Rogues have nothing to compete with Riftblade. If anything is going to be done with the soul I would appreciate that it be done soon.

    Turning Sprint from BD into a Ride the Wind clone (10s duration, 20s cool down) is the cleanest way to give Rogues a 20s break free available in an off soul that most other callings are already in possession of. Alternatively changing Getaway in Marksman to "all control effects" and swapping it with Guarded Departure or reducing the cool down of Escape Artist in Ranger to 20s and swapping it with Piercing Shot. All options I see beyond that require more significant changes to pull off.

    Ranger/Tactician being bad souls and the weapon swap issues are just a part of Rogue life at this point. I have no expectations for Ranger or Tactician passes in the near future and at this point I am convinced that using the ranged weapon for ranged attacks without the weapon swap issues is beyond the abilities of the game engine.

    If this were Vanilla and we had more difficult open world content a la Ember Isle I could see Rogue self healing being a valid concern but I haven't run into anything that couldn't be covered by Curative Engine + Vampiric Essesnces in a very long time.

    The only bad thing I see about the Ice Zerker nerf/Bladedancer buffs is that Nightblade will once again be a forgotten soul whose only purpose is acting as a disconnect friendly platform for Assassin poisons.
    Last edited by Stihl; 11-23-2015 at 01:56 AM.
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