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Thread: A few things about Marksman ...

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default A few things about Marksman ...

    Lately I have been seeing a lot of rogues playing MM in raids, even on bosses like Yrlwalach, where there is really no reason to do so. When asked to please go nbsin, if only to provide the 5% crit debuff, those individuals respond that they don't have that spec. And most of them aren't even playing it properly. No, putting your builders in a macro is not acceptable. You are a rogue, not a warrior.

    Sooo, let me clarify:

    Marksman is not our top dps spec. It's not even close to 61 Assassin, 38/38 Nbsin or 61 Nightblade. Therefore, please be aware that every time you play MM on a boss, you are contributing less to the raid than you could/should.

    There are 2 reasons to play MM over the melee specs:

    1. The fight is not melee friendly. Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of encounters in NT is. Notable exceptions are Crucia in T1 and Prince/King in T2.

    2. You need to make use of its utilities, the purge/interrupt that rogue melee specs don't offer. And I mean, actually make use of it and not only have it as a third backup. Generally, however, other classes can fill these roles more efficiently. If you are lacking clerics you can use a MM to purge on the last boss in iGP, or use one to snare/knockback an add on Pumpkin if there aren't enough pyros. But on Murdantix/Yrl/Johan etc., where there are no purges and all interrupts can be done by tanks, playing MM is nothing but a dps loss.



    Last but not least, if you want to go MM for one of those reasons, please make sure you have read and understood Orange's MM guide to get the most out of it. The rotation isn't overly complicated, but there are some tricks to it (like not macroing your builders!)




    TL;DR: Please don't consider MM your main dps spec in raids, that should be nbsin for T1 and 61 NB for T2. It's good sometimes, but most of the times just a dps loss.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    The individuals playing Marksman are likely the same individuals that were playing Ranger in December. They aren't doing it because it's the optimal spec or because it's beneficial to their group, they are doing it because they are uncomfortable/unwilling/unable/un-idgaf-about-everyone-elses-time. Do not count on these same individuals as your primary purges/interrupts, you will only set yourself up for disappointment.

    Marksman, despite being a decent ranged spec, should be your last choice given the disparity between it and NB/SIN/assorted hybrids.
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  3. #3
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    Default Seriously, why play MM?

    I never understand these people at all. In what way is MM actually an easier spec to play than NB/sin? With NB/Sin, you have, what, 6-7 buttons, with no major macros, plus cooldowns to manage? No screwing around with cramming stuff into a 5s CD block, no screwing around with misclicking and putting Calculated Shot on cooldown. etc.

    Plus you bring the 5% debuff and just do way more damage. What's MM's appeal?

  4. #4
    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Hey, at least you guys get MM instead of rangers.
    Idk whats is up with this but SL was swarming with MM everywhere. Now that ranger took its crown as the poor useless soul, they seem to plague any kind of content out there
    Last edited by Nasacrim; 08-04-2015 at 07:56 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckftw View Post
    I never understand these people at all. In what way is MM actually an easier spec to play than NB/sin? With NB/Sin, you have, what, 6-7 buttons, with no major macros, plus cooldowns to manage? No screwing around with cramming stuff into a 5s CD block, no screwing around with misclicking and putting Calculated Shot on cooldown. etc.

    Plus you bring the 5% debuff and just do way more damage. What's MM's appeal?
    For some people standing within 3m to boss hitbox is very complicated...

    Besides you can macro everything together and play MM with 3 buttons (and it will still out dps ranger lol)...

    Button 1: Builder macro with Empowered->Calculated->lightning fury->Swift->bullseye->EM all macroed together. (can also add break free and cleanse soul here)

    Button 2. Finisher macro with RFS->DES->Hasted->Bullseye->EM. (can also add break free and cleanse soul here)

    Button 3: Sentry Battery.

    Ignore Barbed shot, its **** dot anyways it's no reaver dot. Not worth 1 extra button and the crit bonus only useful once every minute anyways,


    Rotation:
    Push 3 on cd.
    Push 1 until 5CP
    Push 2 when at 5CP.
    Repeat

    There you go, pro MM 101 tl;dr version.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 08-05-2015 at 07:05 AM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Onebutton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckftw View Post
    I never understand these people at all. In what way is MM actually an easier spec to play than NB/sin? With NB/Sin, you have, what, 6-7 buttons, with no major macros, plus cooldowns to manage? No screwing around with cramming stuff into a 5s CD block, no screwing around with misclicking and putting Calculated Shot on cooldown. etc.

    Plus you bring the 5% debuff and just do way more damage. What's MM's appeal?
    If you are a clicker, 6-7 buttons can be tough, especially when sometimes you don't know if you have actually clicked the key or not.. I personally find it very, very hard to play a 6-7 button spec.

    So if you ask me why some people play MM over NB/Sin perhaps managing 6-7 buttons is harder for them and I also hear that NB/SIn is very unforgiving if you mess up the rotation.. What's not hard to understand?
    OneButton (Half-way now to becoming a two-button player!)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    For some people standing within 3m to boss hitbox is very complicated...

    Besides you can macro everything together and play MM with 3 buttons (and it will still out dps ranger lol)...

    Button 1: Builder macro with Empowered->Calculated->lightning fury->Swift->bullseye->EM all macroed together. (can also add break free and cleanse soul here)

    Button 2. Finisher macro with RFS->DES->Hasted->Bullseye->EM. (can also add break free and cleanse soul here)

    Button 3: Sentry Battery.

    Ignore Barbed shot, its **** dot anyways it's no reaver dot. Not worth 1 extra button and the crit bonus only useful once every minute anyways,


    Rotation:
    Push 3 on cd.
    Push 1 until 5CP
    Push 2 when at 5CP.
    Repeat

    There you go, pro MM 101 tl;dr version.
    Why would you macro in Calculated shot? this would make it always on CD. Im not big on MM but wouldn't having it out side of your macro and having a Kalert for when ever you have a movement buff for it to consume and just cycling back and forth be better on dps?

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara somestuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    For some people standing within 3m to boss hitbox is very complicated...

    Besides you can macro everything together and play MM with 3 buttons (and it will still out dps ranger lol)...

    Button 1: Builder macro with Empowered->Calculated->lightning fury->Swift->bullseye->EM all macroed together. (can also add break free and cleanse soul here)

    Button 2. Finisher macro with RFS->DES->Hasted->Bullseye->EM. (can also add break free and cleanse soul here)

    Button 3: Sentry Battery.

    Ignore Barbed shot, its **** dot anyways it's no reaver dot. Not worth 1 extra button and the crit bonus only useful once every minute anyways,


    Rotation:
    Push 3 on cd.
    Push 1 until 5CP
    Push 2 when at 5CP.
    Repeat

    There you go, pro MM 101 tl;dr version.
    this is gonna be good. gets popcorn...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrodite Rising View Post
    If you are a clicker, 6-7 buttons can be tough, especially when sometimes you don't know if you have actually clicked the key or not.. I personally find it very, very hard to play a 6-7 button spec.

    So if you ask me why some people play MM over NB/Sin perhaps managing 6-7 buttons is harder for them and I also hear that NB/SIn is very unforgiving if you mess up the rotation.. What's not hard to understand?
    Keybinds too hard?


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrodite Rising View Post
    If you are a clicker, 6-7 buttons can be tough, especially when sometimes you don't know if you have actually clicked the key or not.. I personally find it very, very hard to play a 6-7 button spec.

    So if you ask me why some people play MM over NB/Sin perhaps managing 6-7 buttons is harder for them and I also hear that NB/SIn is very unforgiving if you mess up the rotation.. What's not hard to understand?
    Most of those buttons in NB/Sin don't need to actually be used very often. Once every 10, 15, and 30 seconds, and your non-Dusk Strike melee builder isn't even used sometimes, depending on energy starvation. Why click, anyway?

    Also, MM is WAY more unforgiving if you mess up the rotation and put Calculated on cooldown when you don't want to. NB/Sin also wins for two-target fights (like the first phase of Izkinra with the warmasters).

    Finally, 3-button MM is an abomination. Period.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckftw View Post
    Also, MM is WAY more unforgiving if you mess up the rotation and put Calculated on cooldown when you don't want to.

    Finally, 3-button MM is an abomination. Period.
    This... I play MM whenever I can't play Sin (On account of me being awful at nb/sin) and nothing sucks more than glancing at your bar and realizing Calculated Shot is on cd when you're nowhere near your cd block. And if you're going to have to use more than 4 or 5 buttons because there are fights where you have to interrupt or purge or need a movement boost. My PvE spec is ~8 buttons not including utility and I still have stuff macroed.
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  12. #12
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    Default wtb 38/38s in pugs

    i have to poke 4 dps in a threngar raid before one goes finaly 38/38 instead of mm crap.
    and i just dont get it if u play crappy rotation mm u can just play 38/38 and stay at 20 meter range and do better dps probs.
    and while we talk about mm vs 61nb / 38/38
    mm gets screwed over by lag way harder than 38/38 or 61 nb does.
    lag at your cd block and quite a lose.
    or 1 sec spike and u set your calculated on cd.
    of course never happens with perfect world T R I N O servers

    but lets see the bright site we no longer see raptors in raids

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataria View Post
    i have to poke 4 dps in a threngar raid before one goes finaly 38/38 instead of mm crap.
    and i just dont get it if u play crappy rotation mm u can just play 38/38 and stay at 20 meter range and do better dps probs.
    and while we talk about mm vs 61nb / 38/38
    mm gets screwed over by lag way harder than 38/38 or 61 nb does.
    lag at your cd block and quite a lose.
    or 1 sec spike and u set your calculated on cd.
    of course never happens with perfect world T R I N O servers

    but lets see the bright site we no longer see raptors in raids
    7 rogues in a threngar pug, no one knows how to play nbsin, gg no lethal poison....but at least theres no anoying raptors xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    7 rogues in a threngar pug, no one knows how to play nbsin, gg no lethal poison....but at least theres no anoying raptors xD
    It's not news that many rogues don't play nbsin. 61NB is much easier and can cleave very well, and has better mobility and utility. Most rogues run 61nb, 61mm and 61sin in raid thats about it.

    In most fights you only need 1 nbsin to carry lethal tho (while other rogues 61nb pad their *** off), I dont see how it's a big deal. IMO, it's very rare that out of 7 rogues no one can play nbsin. You just had bad pugs, all 7 of them.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    It's not news that many rogues don't play nbsin. 61NB is much easier and can cleave very well, and has better mobility and utility. Most rogues run 61nb, 61mm and 61sin in raid thats about it.

    In most fights you only need 1 nbsin to carry lethal tho (while other rogues 61nb pad their *** off), I dont see how it's a big deal. IMO, it's very rare that out of 7 rogues no one can play nbsin. You just had bad pugs, all 7 of them.
    Considering 61nb is op just if you have draum ra and most pugs havent even kill threngar they should always play nbsin. Its really really really rare for a pug to play anything else than mm cause.....reasons, if only they could actually play it.

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