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Thread: Which Rogue soul should be updated?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Which Rogue soul should be updated?

    Seeing as Mage and Cleric are getting some soul re tuning and Rogue/Warrior seem to begetting ignored. Should Vladd ever update one of our souls which one do you think needs the most attention? Personally I would love for Sab to get some re tooling.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Tactician, Sab, Ranger, possibly Bladedancer.

    And maybe a few QoL changes here and there for some of our other souls.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Pokkah's Avatar
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    wtb BD buffs

    why can nb be op and bd not, qq
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    Plane Touched Illuyanka's Avatar
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    Tactician. It has a really fun playstyle, badass flamethrowers, some good skills. It just needs to be transformed to dps, or add good support cooldowns. Ablative coil is good and unique but it shouldnt be the 61 pt talent. Need a flaring power or orchestra spell.
    Last edited by Illuyanka; 07-01-2015 at 12:27 PM.
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    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Ranger is supposed to get one. Tactician and sab need one. The other souls only require small tweaks.

  6. #6
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    - Bladedancer could use some buffs to the scaling of it's ST abilities. It's not a top-tier ST soul for good reason but it is falling further and further and further behind other DPS souls as time passes. I'd like to see it a little more competitive if only for the reason I find it one of the most fun souls to play!

    I suspect it's naturally very poor crit rate is a significant part of the cause of it's scaling issues. So perhaps that could be worth examining more closely and boosting by some means. There's also a fair few redundant abilities that could be re-purposed by some means (like Deadly Strike, Meditative Trance and so on).


    - Saboteur does it's job.. though I wish it was a little less coma-inducing to play. I'd be in favour of some small mechanic and gameplay adjustments just for the sake of making it feel less.. spammy. Though admittedly this would be of lower priority than tweaks to other souls.


    - Tactician is likely in the most dire need of a full rework. But first a decision must be reached about just what it's supposed to be. As long as it's trying to simultaneously be a DPS, Healer and Support in a single soul it's never going to be able to perform at a respectable lever at any one of those roles.


    - Ranger has been promised an overhaul for about.. a year now? What happened to that new pet that was being shown off, exactly?

    Anyway the plan was, reputedly, to specialize it as a soloing build. Not something I agree with personally (I've never found soloing as a Rogue to be any kind of struggle, ever) but if that's what's going to happen perhaps giving it some 'Life-themed' abilities like self-regen and 'entangling roots' and so on could be an interesting direction to take. Plus, make the tank pet actually able to do it's job.
    Last edited by Kedon; 07-02-2015 at 03:32 AM.

  7. #7
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    Rogue souls get updated? Doesn't that require a dev for the soul? Vladd hasn't done anything of substance to rogue or warrior for that matter in 6 months now. That is beyond ridiculous. We've been promised changes and such for over a year now that simply haven't happened. And the way the marksman changes came about were a joke. No feedback on the forums, not even posts from Vladd saying these were up on the PTS. Look at what Red Hawk has been doing for Harb. It may be taking a while, but at least he is communicating in a noticeable way and looking for feedback from the community. We haven't had anything like that since before MM changes unless I am forgetting something. Combine that with the rogue loot situation in HK and it is beyond frustrating. I get that work is being put into the new class, but what's the point if nobody is left to play the game when it comes out because half of your player base has been ignored for the last year? I know Vladd has been working on a lot of other aspects of the game, but that is probably a large part of the problem, being spread to thin, and not being able to give the souls the attention they need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntorun View Post
    Rogue souls get updated? Doesn't that require a dev for the soul? Vladd hasn't done anything of substance to rogue or warrior for that matter in 6 months now. That is beyond ridiculous. We've been promised changes and such for over a year now that simply haven't happened. And the way the marksman changes came about were a joke. No feedback on the forums, not even posts from Vladd saying these were up on the PTS. Look at what Red Hawk has been doing for Harb. It may be taking a while, but at least he is communicating in a noticeable way and looking for feedback from the community. We haven't had anything like that since before MM changes unless I am forgetting something. Combine that with the rogue loot situation in HK and it is beyond frustrating. I get that work is being put into the new class, but what's the point if nobody is left to play the game when it comes out because half of your player base has been ignored for the last year? I know Vladd has been working on a lot of other aspects of the game, but that is probably a large part of the problem, being spread to thin, and not being able to give the souls the attention they need.
    That's why I made this post to hopefully get our community talking about whats wrong and maybe he will at least do some numbers tuning like Red is doing. I know they dont have the resources to re-code and make new animations for skills.

    His lack of attention to his classes is why I have been playing my mage more lately. I am really close to transferring my rogue or warrior an making a cleric (don't feel like playing for another slot until the class mod actually shows interest in his classes).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiune View Post
    That's why I made this post to hopefully get our community talking about whats wrong and maybe he will at least do some numbers tuning like Red is doing. I know they dont have the resources to re-code and make new animations for skills.
    Unfortunately, it's far more than numbers tuning that rogues "need" (and I use the need very loosely). For the souls/specs that are viable/playable, the numbers themselves are actually pretty good. Bladedancer is a slight outlier, but that really comes down to how much value is placed in AoE burst vs. sustained ST.

    The work that does "need" to be done is revamps of the unused souls to make them useful again (Tactician, Ranger), to make the spec more than a single button spam (Sab), or to simplify the soul to make it more accessible (Bladedancer, and this one is debatable). None of these are simple undertakings, and he's had them on his list for the better part of 2 years.

  10. #10
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    i think bd is mostly fine, although maybe it isn't scaling well like people say it is, but it has needed some qol changes for quite awhile. the crit debuff sucks and is never used, and it's really, really bad at disconnects due to having no ranged abilities and/or no snare. something like grasping the horizon would be really great for bd, or maybe removing the energy penalty from defensive pose entirely instead to make it ultra mobile? either that or some kind of ranged spam builder with a finisher that adds deadly dance stacks would be pretty nice to have, so that once you're back in melee range you've still got your 3 stacks of deadly dance.

    the build-up for bladedancer is also a pretty big issue, especially in pvp when considering it's fairly mediocre crit rate. duelist pose stacks changed to simply each attack you use rather than each crit would be a welcome change.

    what happened to the ranger revamp/pet revamp that was in the works? did it get buried for mm/primalist?

    as far as sab goes, i'd like to see it scale with more than just 8-10 targets. since i'm a cleric these days i play cab a good amount and where it really excels, especially in cq, is when you have 20+ targets to work with, but in that case sab hits a wall in terms of dps potential and you can't even control who your abilities hit. combine this with the stationary nature of everything but charges and you've got an aoe soul that is easy, but very limited in it's use.
    Last edited by ecru; 07-02-2015 at 07:53 PM.
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    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    i'd like to see tact get re-worked. Remove the healing abilities and make them drains/cc/utility. We already have bard and phys. Make tact function the same but more dom-like abilities
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 07-06-2015 at 08:50 AM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Crithappens's Avatar
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    We need Bladedancer modified to not require 2 melee weapons so we can maybe-hopefully-possibly-someday see a 2H Rogue weapon so we're not the only calling forced to get 3 weapons.
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  13. #13
    Shield of Telara somestuff's Avatar
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    I'd like to see Ranger get an update so the kids who still play it in PVP/NTE actually help out. Also so we have a spec with true mobility at range.

    BD needs an update. Maybe make it a true AOE melee spec or get rid of the AOE and make it a fun melee spec like Paragon.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crithappens View Post
    We need Bladedancer modified to not require 2 melee weapons so we can maybe-hopefully-possibly-someday see a 2H Rogue weapon so we're not the only calling forced to get 3 weapons.
    Rather than modifying BD (which, to get rid of the 2-one-hand requirement would also require art and modeling changes for ALL souls to introduce 2-handed animations), I think they should add into the game weapon "pairs". These pairs would be a fixed set, so you either use both or none, and would drop as a single item. In essence, they'd be dual, one-handed items that behave like a two-handed. It would save the work required to do all the remodelling, and finally give rogues an answer to staves, war-hammers, great-swords, etc.

  15. #15
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    Giving Rogues 2H would be cool and all. In fact, that would officially break the full RPG meta - ranged casterlike warriors, Mage tanks, Clerics with incredible dps (usually clerics are full-time healers), Rogue tanks and healers, and all the other stuff that separates Rift from other RPGs.

    Make some changes to the Bladedancer, just not so that it gets ruined. I love Bladedancer, it's fun, it's not even complicated, it is very useful.

    Along with Tactician, Ranger, Warlord, Riftblade, Elementalist, blah blah etc.
    All I ever see are Reaver Warriors, NB/SINs, Pyros, and Inquisitors. 40 souls is nice and all, but a few of them are very lackluster, or not fun to play, or too weak to be fun to play.
    Last edited by ZackWyvern; 07-07-2015 at 07:24 PM. Reason: missed a word

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