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Thread: NB QOL Changes (revisited)

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    Default NB QOL Changes (revisited)

    I made this post a while back, and noone seemed to care. Now that we actually use NB I am hoping that people will get behind this...

    1. Make it so Flame Blitz proc the second part of lingering flame (1 extra CP)

    2. Make is so Fiery Chains has a 100% chance to gain a CP for every enemy hit

    This will make our cleave much better, and less clunky.

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    Rift Chaser ILikeOranges's Avatar
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    This would cause more balancing problems than QoL changes, you would get so many more finishers out over a fight which would be a bigger gain to an already strong nightblade


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    Quote Originally Posted by ILikeOranges View Post
    This would cause more balancing problems than QoL changes, you would get so many more finishers out over a fight which would be a bigger gain to an already strong nightblade
    I think #1 is a no brainer. The idea of lingering flame is exactly to get more NB finishers, and Flame Blitz is a NB finisher.

    As for two, you would definitely have to adjust the cd, but I just hate how inconsitent it is, makes predicting things a pain. I personally would rather see it not give extra cp's and apply fiery spike to the targets it hits, but I think that would be too strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    I made this post a while back, and noone seemed to care. Now that we actually use NB I am hoping that people will get behind this...

    1. Make it so Flame Blitz proc the second part of lingering flame (1 extra CP)

    This will make our cleave much better, and less clunky.
    Did you mean "the second part of Flame Blitz (the Fiery Spikes being applied) proc damage from Touch of Darkness"? Otherwise, what's the connection between Flame Blitz and Lingering Flame? Or is it like during Lingering Flame (which applies fiery spikes) no 2nd fiery spikes are being applied from Flame Blitz?

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    Rift Chaser ILikeOranges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    I think #1 is a no brainer. The idea of lingering flame is exactly to get more NB finishers, and Flame Blitz is a NB finisher.

    As for two, you would definitely have to adjust the cd, but I just hate how inconsitent it is, makes predicting things a pain. I personally would rather see it not give extra cp's and apply fiery spike to the targets it hits, but I think that would be too strong.
    #2 Would have to completely change for it to work, otherwise it would just end up being vital for ST rotation since it would be giving you 2 combo points compared to the 1 of primal strike, I personally like how the ability works since you have to think (even though it's just a little) about the best time to use it, letting you get ahead of the people who use it inefficiently (or don't use it at all like i've seen quite a lot), whereas if it gave a fixed number of combo points it just becomes another ability in your rotation you mindlessly press

    #1 could work I guess, though still might make it a bit strong
    Last edited by ILikeOranges; 06-04-2015 at 05:44 AM.


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    Rift Chaser ILikeOranges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dierdre View Post
    Did you mean "the second part of Flame Blitz (the Fiery Spikes being applied) proc damage from Touch of Darkness"? Otherwise, what's the connection between Flame Blitz and Lingering Flame? Or is it like during Lingering Flame (which applies fiery spikes) no 2nd fiery spikes are being applied from Flame Blitz?
    Lingering flame is the talent that makes your blazing strike/flame thrust refresh the active fiery spike and generate an extra combo point, he wants flame blitz to be part of that talent too so that it generates the same combo point as the other two


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    Some off these so called QoL changes feel (not just this post) feels alot like this is to difficult please make it easier!!!

    I mean the number two! Please remove the one thing that makes this spell intresting!
    Having to adapt your rotation to circumstances is a good thing! It makes builds fun and different to play.
    Yes it is a little thing! But many small things like that is what adds difficulty to a build. If we remove them all we will end up with each class having 10 reaver builds...

    Please just learn to use it early in your builders block so you can adapt your rotation later on to deal with if you got a point or not

    Ps. I may have sounded abit hostile! I wasn't trying to I am just to lazy to rewrite the whole post :P

  8. #8
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    #1 sounds good
    #2 sounds like it would be OP as hell on a ST soul that already has great AOE ability. I do think making the extra CP you get instant would be a good QOL step.
    Last edited by Bluelightt; 06-04-2015 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    #1 sounds good
    #2 sounds like it would be OP as hell on a ST soul that already has great AOE ability. I do think making the extra CP you get instant would be a good QOL step.
    I could definitely life with that. I often find myself wasting GCD's waiting for the extra CP's to apply. Sometimes I even cast a cp generator, then the extra cp's apply screwing everything up.

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    Ok, if no one want to jump on board with my first 2 suggestions, can we at least get it so Flame Blitz hits 7 people, like Plague Bringer?

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    As others have mentioned, your first change is fine and one that I would welcome; the second change would simplify the rotation too much for my taste (and might even be a bit overpowered, 61 NB is already in a really great position at the moment). Overextending past 5 CP is fairly commonplace in a spec like 61 NB.

    I'd personally like to see Predatory Instincts changed/remove the aura effect so that it persists through death. This is a very simple no-brainer QoL change that would benefit several of our specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    Ok, if no one want to jump on board with my first 2 suggestions
    Considering the fact that we can't even get basic changes like the removal of the completely arbitrary 10sec CDs on RCM and FR that should have been gone when the MM revamp hit live I doubt many people are expecting much at the moment.
    Last edited by Nebucent; 06-09-2015 at 02:34 PM.

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    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    Ok, if no one want to jump on board with my first 2 suggestions, can we at least get it so Flame Blitz hits 7 people, like Plague Bringer?
    While I would enjoy some more consistency (not a single pair of AOE attacks in NB share the same target limit) NB aoe is already pretty damn competitive. 8 Target Flame Blitz would put NB a good ~20% ahead of a full AOE Reaver while just cleaving (Reaver is currently ~33% ahead when neither has a Threngar weapon) and I already think Reaver is too good at both. It also puts me in a position where I am asking myself where does Bladedancer fit into all of this? There isn't a single encounter where BD outperforms NB.
    Last edited by Stihl; 06-09-2015 at 08:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stihl View Post
    While I would enjoy some more consistency (not a single pair of AOE attacks in NB share the same target limit) NB aoe is already pretty damn competitive. 8 Target Flame Blitz would put NB a good ~20% ahead of a full AOE Reaver while just cleaving (Reaver is currently ~33% ahead when neither has a Threngar weapon) and I already think Reaver is too good at both. It also puts me in a position where I am asking myself where does Bladedancer fit into all of this? There isn't a single encounter where BD outperforms NB.
    NB's AoE burst is great but it's sustained AoE can not compete with reaver even under 5 targets, and reaver scales up to 8 target. And if you are using blitz even with the rest of the builders all ST, reaver will own NB in ST (and AoE) easily even if all you are doing is swapping out blazing strike for flame blitz while doing full ST(blitz just to keep fiery spike stacks on multiple targets).

    BUT I think the problem here isn't NB too strong but rather reaver passive AoE too good. You can literally play reaver and do full max ST dps rotation the entire fight... and still cleave for a great amount depending on # of adds. This is impossible to do with other callings unless you plan on trashing your ST dps on the boss.

    BD is better than NB in 2 circumstances...
    1. Frequent AoE burst that otherwise NB's 1 minute AoE burst is too much downtime (see Inyr'kta in PBB if you played pre-noobmare tides)
    2. burst cleaving of more than 5 targets with targets die within 10-20second because Sab is actually one of the worst aoe soul ingame when it comes to burst aoe.

    And a minor BD advantage is hundred blades has a great coverage area where as NB AoE are almost exclusively melee.

    But this is noobmare tide, most dps souls are simply not very useful (warlord/para/ele/necro/warlock/harb/ranger/rb/druid ect)... and some souls are simply so good it's no point to play anything else (see reaver).
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 06-10-2015 at 07:17 AM.

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    NB's AoE burst is great but it's sustained AoE can not compete with reaver even under 5 targets, and reaver scales up to 8 target. And if you are using blitz even with the rest of the builders all ST, reaver will own NB in ST (and AoE) easily even if all you are doing is swapping out blazing strike for flame blitz while doing full ST(blitz just to keep fiery spike stacks on multiple targets).

    BUT I think the problem here isn't NB too strong but rather reaver passive AoE too good. You can literally play reaver and do full max ST dps rotation the entire fight... and still cleave for a great amount depending on # of adds. This is impossible to do with other callings unless you plan on trashing your ST dps on the boss.

    BD is better than NB in 2 circumstances...
    1. Frequent AoE burst that otherwise NB's 1 minute AoE burst is too much downtime (see Inyr'kta in PBB if you played pre-noobmare tides)
    2. burst cleaving of more than 5 targets with targets die within 10-20second because Sab is actually one of the worst aoe soul ingame when it comes to burst aoe.

    And a minor BD advantage is hundred blades has a great coverage area where as NB AoE are almost exclusively melee.

    But this is noobmare tide, most dps souls are simply not very useful (warlord/para/ele/necro/warlock/harb/ranger/rb/druid ect)... and some souls are simply so good it's no point to play anything else (see reaver).
    Like I said, there isn't a single encounter where BD outperforms NB. This isn't SL. BD's single target is much lower compared to our other souls now than it was then. There also isn't a fight like Brothers or Inyr'kta where just small bursts of aoe are required.

    Reaver using Rancid + Desecrating in the first image. Pure ST with passive cleave for the second.
    NB QOL Changes (revisited)-reaverdps.jpg

    NB using Flame Blitz + Fiery Chains
    NB QOL Changes (revisited)-nbdps2.jpg

    BD using Compound Attack + channels.
    NB QOL Changes (revisited)-bddps2.jpg

    Nightblade sustain aoe is very good. If you give Flame Blitz 8 targets you pretty much add 90k to it's 8 target potential as those last 3 targets now get hit by Blitz+Ignited Weapons+8 more ToD ticks AND 100% uptime on Fiery Spike. It is also literally top tier ST dps and benefits heavily from raid CDs; two things BD can't claim. The previous numbers were pulled from the PTS with right out the box test gear to equalize the results as much as is possible; throw a Threngar proc into the mix and NB gets even better. The only upside to BD atm is the fact is its aoe burst is more flexible and isn't as tied to 60 second cooldowns.
    Last edited by Stihl; 06-10-2015 at 05:04 PM.
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    Like I said, this isn't SL anymore. This is noobmare tide. Most specs are not very useful. And if you are talking about passive cleaving, and you actually look into the primary target for reaver, it will destroy NB if you are using FC and Blitz 100% of the time. And since you are using FC and Blitz this isn't really "passively cleaving" in case you have no idea, as you are sacrificing your ST damage on other targets.

    The only passive cleaving skill in NB during ST dps is living flame. You should try a passive cleave parse with maximized dps on the main target with just living flame vs reaver also doing maximum ST dps on main target while passively cleaving.

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