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Thread: Bard motifs, spambot says hi

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Bard motifs, spambot says hi

    The problem with the motifs was hidden when you could spam 1 macro to buff them all..
    Now that the macro system no longer allows that the motif system is uncovered as dull, mind numbing and skill less.
    Pressing f1,f2,f3,f4,f5 (or what every your binds are) every 30sec is not fun.

    As I see motifs, there are actually 3 categories:
    1) offensive : Bravery (power) and Focus (crit)
    2) defensive: Tenacity (dmg reduction) and Grandeur (healing)
    3) healing: restoration


    Solution A) "just make life easier"

    - Anthem of Glory is now an 8 pt root ability
    - Focused Bravery is now a tier 2 1pt talent: MoB now also increases crit chance by 5%
    - Coda or Restoration is now a 26 pt root ability
    - Grand Tenacity is now a tier 5 1 pt talent: MoT now also increases healing done 5%
    - Resonance: increases atributes by 10% if at least 2 motifs are active on a player

    On the plus side this reduces the number of Motifs to 3, making the rebuffing less "botish" but still doesn't solve the core problem: there is no decision involved, thus no skill.


    Solution B) "lets pretend"


    - No change in abilities
    - Bravery and Focus now share a category
    - Tenacity and Grandeur now share a category
    - Restoration is its own category
    - only 1 motif in a category can be active at a time
    - Resonance: increases atributes by 10% if at least 2 motifs are active on a player

    This solution also reduces the number of Motifs to 3, but with a twist.. The Bard chooses the best combo for any given situation.. In case of a second bard all motifs can be active. The downside is that once he has made the choice it again comes down to "bot" refreshing..


    I like the concept of the bard but the execution makes you feel like a bot instead of active player..
    And while the class can be described as "fun" overall, I think if the concept is not changed in the long run ppl will start to drop their bards..

    Fire away
    Last edited by Vihor; 02-01-2011 at 04:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Champion GoldenAxe's Avatar
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    I must admit that going through all 5 every 30 seconds does get a little annoying after playing for a few hours.

    I do like the animations, though, and would like to see my character's lute out as much as possible. I think there must be a solution out there to accommodate both of those.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple shalmack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vihor View Post
    - only 1 motif in a category can be active at a time
    This is one thing I'm very interested in only having 3 Motiffs to refresh every 30 seconds. Offensive, Defensive, and then a Regeneration one for Health regen and possible mana regen.

  4. #4
    Champion Siveon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenAxe View Post
    I must admit that going through all 5 every 30 seconds does get a little annoying after playing for a few hours.

    I do like the animations, though, and would like to see my character's lute out as much as possible. I think there must be a solution out there to accommodate both of those.
    I don't get it, any other class has to press buttons almost every time GCD ends to heal/dps/tank why all this whining about wanting to press less buttons?
    Having macros doing it for you doesn't free you to do other stuff, it just makes you click less.

    Get a gaming mouse/keyboard or software to make macros if it bother you too much.
    Macros are meant to add functionality to spells and targeting not playing the game for you.
    Last edited by Siveon; 02-01-2011 at 04:14 AM.
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  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    I like it the way it is... Bard is superb support class already, making those changes(making it simplier/easier) will make bards OP(just my opinion). Too many rogues out there already...

    Again just my opinion i like it the way it is
    one thing i would like is: ability to change skills sounds(kinda like dyes for equipment) those tunes gets boring when every bard hits same notes every 30 sec

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Where does it say you ALWAYS have to have all 5 motifs up? My plan is to have Bravery, Tenacity and Focus up the majority of the time. Grandeur and then Resto will be added to the rotation when it is a healing intensive fight. I found on most fights during the game, my healing wasn't doing anything for anybody, except the main tank. Not a lot of AoE damage for the entire group, which is where Cadence and Resto really help.

  7. #7
    JDS
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    Pressing 1 button to activate them all is just as boring, but I don't find the 6 seconds that unbearable.

    NOW NOW NOW! RECASTING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY 6 BUFFS PAINS MY BUTTHOLE!

    Give me a break man, Jesus.
    Last edited by JDS; 02-01-2011 at 05:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siveon View Post
    I don't get it, any other class has to press buttons almost every time GCD ends to heal/dps/tank why all this whining about wanting to press less buttons?
    I completely agree, you're pressing buttons no matter what. The difference is that they're not attacks but buffs. So maybe that's why people feel like they're a chore. But Bards are a support class, buffing their party is their main purpose. Attacking mobs directly is not what the class is about. It being the same abilities over and over again does get boring, though that is much the same for any class.

    I would propose Solution C: Add more motifs, mez,charm, damage prevention, resists, etc
    With more choices for buffs to play combat becomes a lot more involved. A good bard can adapt his twists to whats needed at the moment. If you're on the ball you can have a big impact on how your group preforms.

    It was this versatility that made the original EQ1 bards so much fun to play. Player skill was just as important as gear or level. The longer duration reduces the strain that left many of us with rsi and brings it back on the level of other classes.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Drekor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenAxe View Post
    I must admit that going through all 5 every 30 seconds does get a little annoying after playing for a few hours.

    I do like the animations, though, and would like to see my character's lute out as much as possible. I think there must be a solution out there to accommodate both of those.
    It's still pushing buttons nearly every GCD like every other class. Not sure why motifs are such a problem for people.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Vabjekf's Avatar
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    I enjoy it it. Pushing lots of buttons like that is part of the bard experience. Always has been.

    Also i like how you can rearange the order you have them in to make different little songs that you play while buffing.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Lyanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fhealing View Post
    Where does it say you ALWAYS have to have all 5 motifs up? My plan is to have Bravery, Tenacity and Focus up the majority of the time. Grandeur and then Resto will be added to the rotation when it is a healing intensive fight. I found on most fights during the game, my healing wasn't doing anything for anybody, except the main tank. Not a lot of AoE damage for the entire group, which is where Cadence and Resto really help.
    This. I couldn't agree more.

    We have so many things we can do, so a GOOD Bard will figure out what to cast when it is most meaningful. If you feel like you have to keep everything up all the time, then maybe you need to look at yourself and ask if YOU are forcing yourself to be a spammy buffbot.

    I know when I'm running around, I run the Motifs that fit the needs of the group at the time. If the fight is light on incoming damage, I may not keep up as much healing, and instead focus more on debuffing and DPS Motifs/skills. If things switch to be higher incoming damage, then I switch to Tenacity/Regen and cycle more CoRs and debuff the AP/SP of the mobs.

    I would hate to have them reduce my ability to morph my skills to the need of the group because some people want to 'press less buttons'.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara Telal's Avatar
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    Set up a roatation!

    Start of fight, cast all 5 motifs. (25 seconds left on bravery)
    cadence
    cadence
    CoR
    cadence
    cadence
    CoR
    ->Bravery
    cadence
    cadence
    CoR
    ->Focus
    cadence
    cadence
    CoR
    ->restoration
    cadence
    cadence
    CoR
    ->Tenacity
    cadence
    cadence
    CoR
    ->Grandeur

    This way you aren't spamming all 5 at one time, no one buff every drops, and you do your thing (you can replace the second cadence in any chain with any 2 combo point builders, and it shouldn't effect the Motifs dropping, and obviously, CoR can be replaced with any other finisher.
    Therylin - R5 Healer
    Thericia- R4 Rogue

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    It's very interesting.
    On my Assassin I am starting fight with Assassinate (only once per fight, becouse stealth is the requirement), then I use 2-point builder (every 10s) and spam 1-point builder. Once I have 5 points I use finisher. So after counting those skills- I am using 4 skills only, and one of them only at begining. And I am not hearing from fellow Assassins that they consider that boring gameplay.
    We are using 5 motifs, 2 builders, 2 debuffing finishers, 2 damaging ones and a healing one. How come anyone considers this boring is totally unreasonable to me.
    Buffing is part of who we are- maintaining them is our duty which I proudly do.

  14. #14
    Ascendant MopDaddy's Avatar
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    Its very simple if you don't like it then you don't play bard.

    /end of thread about Crying over some buttons to press.
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  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Hurst's Avatar
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    This has been a common complaint in most of the mmo's I've played. I even posted about making a macro simply to make it easy to keep all the buffs running. Why would you want to do this;..... the answer is clear to maximize your impact on the game/fight. I am not playing a bard so I am only interjecting my $.02 in the discussion. When you have 3 hotbars full of spells it makes life easier to macro some of them, and yes a gaming mouse would work but some people like myself are too simple to figure them out I also realize that we all have tons of buttons to spam and that is part of choosing what clas you play, I tend to choose something like an assassin where I can limit my executions to a certain amount of keys, and if I play a healer I setup the heals so I only use a base, a grp, and a massive heal and spam them to death (or hopefully not death)
    SPEAK SOFTLY BUT CARRY A BIG STICK

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