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Thread: Stat weight question

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Zroka's Avatar
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    Default Stat weight question

    Hi rogue folks,

    have a question about stats. I'm not a so called specialist of stats, I follow some in-guild guides for this. But I would love to have your opinion. Many said to me that I need to stack first CP up to 40% than stack CC and then AP...So my question is...is it the way to do ?

    Here are my stats in ***/nb :
    dex 6301
    ap 7911
    cc 6017
    cp 2936

    So Im really near the 40% on CP (I got 37.6).
    My essences are mainly cp just one that is CC, but I feel Im doing all wrong, don't know why...For some reason I ever thought that AP is one hell of a stat to stack...

    Thanks if you can show me the light !!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zroka View Post
    Hi rogue folks,

    have a question about stats. I'm not a so called specialist of stats, I follow some in-guild guides for this. But I would love to have your opinion. Many said to me that I need to stack first CP up to 40% than stack CC and then AP...So my question is...is it the way to do ?

    Here are my stats in ***/nb :
    dex 6301
    ap 7911
    cc 6017
    cp 2936

    So Im really near the 40% on CP (I got 37.6).
    My essences are mainly cp just one that is CC, but I feel Im doing all wrong, don't know why...For some reason I ever thought that AP is one hell of a stat to stack...

    Thanks if you can show me the light !!
    You should only use a CP piece to get to cap over an AP piece if it's total stat value is higher.

    For example:

    Assume Attack Power has a value of 1. Here are some example weightings compared to AP being 1:

    Dexterity = .975
    Stength = .475
    Attack Power = 1
    Crit Chance = .45
    Crit Power = .8

    And here are 2 pieces of gear for comparison:

    Helm 1
    200 Dexterity
    100 Strength
    100 Attack Power

    Helm 2
    200 Dexterity
    100 Strength
    125 Crit Power

    Total Values based on weights are 342.5 for both items taken by multiplying each stat by it's respective weight and adding them up for the items total value.

    So in this case the items are equal in value to a build that uses that specific set of weights. Stat weights vary for every permutation of every build and will constantly change based on the players stats. For example, Marksman's Crit Power weight is significantly higher than a build like 38/38 NBSin due to Marksmans naturally high Crit Chance. Helm 2 would clearly be the better option for Marksman since it's Crit Power weight is higher than my example.

    Another example of when stacking Crit Power for the sake of stacking it can be bad:

    Using the same weights from above

    Helm 1
    200 Dex
    100 Str
    100 AP
    Weighted value of 342.5

    Helm 2
    125 Dex
    75 Str
    200 CP
    Weighted value of 317.5

    So you can see Helm 1 is better by a considerable margin (25 points) regardless of the extreme amount of CP Helm 2 has compared to AP on Helm 1.

    To me based on your stats given, it looks like you have been passing up on heavy stat+AP pieces that may have been significantly better in value than the CP gear you are stacking. There are even cases when Critical Hit Chance gear is better than the AP variants but some people have personal vendetta's against wearing Crit Hit gear.
    Last edited by haybale; 02-24-2015 at 04:40 AM.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Zroka's Avatar
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    This is a really good answer !! thanks !

    But it brings me an other question : how do you calculate the weights for a certain spec then ? It's base only on the tree ? Or is there some obscure things ?

    I think i will try to make a excel file to do this math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zroka View Post
    This is a really good answer !! thanks !

    But it brings me an other question : how do you calculate the weights for a certain spec then ? It's base only on the tree ? Or is there some obscure things ?

    I think i will try to make a excel file to do this math.
    You would need to know base damage along with the AP and Weapon DPS Coefficients for every ability based on the build you are trying to get weights for. Also, the rotation would need to be mapped out to calculate the total dps contribution of each one since they all have different coefficients and crit chances. I will send you one of mine. I still have some problems with it but it should give you a decent idea of how to go about it.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  5. #5
    Soulwalker Zroka's Avatar
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    You are awesome man ! Thanks ! I will study all this infos now, I'm so curious now

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zroka View Post
    You are awesome man ! Thanks ! I will study all this infos now, I'm so curious now
    Here's the quick way to figure things out for DPS specs:
    1) For weapons: Does it have a higher weapon DPS for the ability type you're using (ie. ranged weapon when you're using marksman)? If yes, then it's an upgrade
    2) Is it a DPS item that is a higher tier than what you currently have? If yes, then it's an upgrade.
    3) Does it have dual off stats on it (ie. both Phys crit and AP like these pants)? If yes, then it's an upgrade.
    4) Lastly, prefer CP, AP, then Phys Crit in that order.

    Again, this is just a quick way to guage, and each spec does have their own stat weights depending on what their native crit chance is, as well as what your current gear is.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Default link your stat weights pls?

    haybale could u do use fellow rogues a big favor and put your stat weights for 38/38 and mm here? (other specs appreciated too) or link the goggle spreadsheet?

    i'd love to have some proper statweights instead of going by some estimates.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zroka View Post
    Hi rogue folks,

    have a question about stats. I'm not a so called specialist of stats, I follow some in-guild guides for this. But I would love to have your opinion. Many said to me that I need to stack first CP up to 40% than stack CC and then AP...So my question is...is it the way to do ?

    Here are my stats in ***/nb :
    dex 6301
    ap 7911
    cc 6017
    cp 2936

    So Im really near the 40% on CP (I got 37.6).
    My essences are mainly cp just one that is CC, but I feel Im doing all wrong, don't know why...For some reason I ever thought that AP is one hell of a stat to stack...

    Thanks if you can show me the light !!
    Just ballpark looking at it, your CP is ok, you have too much phys crit and actually really low dex for that CP. Stack on dex / AP gear next. Keep your current CP, maybe just add an item or 2 or upgrade what you have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cataria View Post
    haybale could u do use fellow rogues a big favor and put your stat weights for 38/38 and mm here? (other specs appreciated too) or link the goggle spreadsheet?

    i'd love to have some proper statweights instead of going by some estimates.
    I am not 100% confident in my weights at the moment or i would and I am working on a more inclusive sheet for management of any build simultaneously. Right now i just have a few random builds in separate sheets. I wouldn't want to provide incorrect info to you guys though even if it is just off a percent or so. Someone else out there may have a better resource.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    I use stat weights of 1 AP, 0.7 CP, 0.4 crit for melee specs and for MM I use 0.8 for CP. Dex and str I just convert to AP and crit. The difference is there because our melee specs scale well with AP but don't crit that much while MM crits more and has less AP scaling.

    Usually it's quite easy to tell which items are the best even if the stat weights are only estimates since there's not that many choices. Most common mistake I see people do in itemization is to overvalue CP and sacrifice everything else just to reach the softcap.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I use stat weights of 1 AP, 0.7 CP, 0.4 crit for melee specs and for MM I use 0.8 for CP. Dex and str I just convert to AP and crit. The difference is there because our melee specs scale well with AP but don't crit that much while MM crits more and has less AP scaling.
    I am seeing MM CP weight quite a bit higher but i don't think my calculations are 100% accurate due to minute variations in abilities since trion doesn't display fractions. With that said, i don't see it being 25% off though as i show MM hitting a weight of 1 in CP.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    I am seeing MM CP weight quite a bit higher but i don't think my calculations are 100% accurate due to minute variations in abilities since trion doesn't display fractions. With that said, i don't see it being 25% off though as i show MM hitting a weight of 1 in CP.
    I guess 0.8 is a bit low for MM but I don't believe it to be quite as high as 1 either. I did some quick estimates and got it to around 0.9.

    Anyway CP cap is not that high and once you reach it you have to start swapping out those CP items for other items. So I consider it perfectly fine to itemize directly for the items that offer the best conversion ratios from CP to AP such as the raid mark shoulders. Once you're at CP cap the value of it drops to around 0.6 which is the usual conversion ratio in items between AP and CP. For that reason I don't spend too much time and effort trying to estimate stat weights.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    I guess 0.8 is a bit low for MM but I don't believe it to be quite as high as 1 either. I did some quick estimates and got it to around 0.9.

    Anyway CP cap is not that high and once you reach it you have to start swapping out those CP items for other items. So I consider it perfectly fine to itemize directly for the items that offer the best conversion ratios from CP to AP such as the raid mark shoulders. Once you're at CP cap the value of it drops to around 0.6 which is the usual conversion ratio in items between AP and CP. For that reason I don't spend too much time and effort trying to estimate stat weights.
    Just to clarify, do you mean that for marksman CP is still worth 0.6 AP after the soft cap?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakmir View Post
    Just to clarify, do you mean that for marksman CP is still worth 0.6 AP after the soft cap?
    At the softcap the value of CP defaults to about 0.6 when you compare different items since it is the ratio at which you can easily shuffle the excess CP to AP. So if you have CP items with worse ratio than that then those are the first ones you should swap out. Do not stack CP above the soft cap.

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