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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Soul Feedback - Marksman

  1. #61
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by archcomponent View Post
    80% sure he meant Swift Shot missing messing up the Calculated Shot CD and 50% sure he was thinking about PvP. There is a big disparity in how misses hose some soul's rotations but others take it in stride with only minor loss. Used to be more of a non-issue, but the current PvP situation runs people into it now.
    Oops

    Actually i was thinking about calculated shot, which didn't get changed anyway. For some reason I thought they changed the CD on it. Calculated shot goes on CD if you use it and that particular attack missed as far as I can see - and I wondered if that was an over-sight or unintended outcome in their way of implementing a shot which provides more pve dmg at the expense of pvp capabilities.

  2. #62
    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    ERADICATE:
    * Is always lit up even when there is nothing to purge
    * Goes off when you hit it even if there is nothing to purge

    This is the opposite of Inquisitor's Purge works. It would be a great QoL adjustment to make it work more like Inq's Purge.

  3. #63
    Rift Chaser pit81's Avatar
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    Ranged combat mastery and Free recoil are buffs and have 10sec cd. Whats the reason behind to have 10sec cd? Maybe it should be off gcd.

  4. #64
    Shield of Telara somestuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shouku View Post
    In PvE it is disappointing to me. It has a very clunky rotation in order to get its full DPS out of it. You can simplify it via macros of course, so it plays more like my pyro or inq, but then you dont get the full DPS. I do not mind having a more complex rotation if its a nice flowing one, but I do mind it when its clunky like this.

    If I had to make 2 requests in regards to MM, it would be to fix the above problem, and make the rotation more smooth, not so clunky, as the combination of the 2 basically invalidates MM for me for raid DPS where tight checks are present, and which I would love to do.
    Hey Vladd, any response to this? I see it all over the forums. Not many people enjoy playing the re-work. Any idea when MM is going to get a re-work of the re-work?

  5. #65
    Plane Walker Alastair's Avatar
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    i dont like new MM

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by somestuff View Post
    Hey Vladd, any response to this? I see it all over the forums. Not many people enjoy playing the re-work. Any idea when MM is going to get a re-work of the re-work?
    I guess I am one of the few. I find it to be one of the most rewarding specs to play right now and it is very fluid imo. I have very few complaints about how it was redone.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  7. #67
    Shield of Telara somestuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    I guess I am one of the few. I find it to be one of the most rewarding specs to play right now and it is very fluid imo. I have very few complaints about how it was redone.
    that's fine, everyone is allowed an opinion. That still doesn't address everyone else in this post and others that are complaining. All I've read on the forums is about how the spec is very clunky. All I've seen in game is no one using the spec.
    Last edited by somestuff; 03-03-2015 at 06:09 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by somestuff View Post
    that's fine, everyone is allowed an opinion. That still doesn't address everyone else in this post and others that are complaining. All I've read on the forums is about how the spec is very clunky. All I've seen in game is no one using the spec.
    Not sure who you are playing with then. I see mm just about everywhere. The rotation is not clunky. First stage cabalist rework on the pts when you had to apply 7 dots every 15 seconds on a 1.5 second gcd was clunky. MM buildup transitions are very smooth throughout any duration parse.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  9. #69
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by somestuff View Post
    that's fine, everyone is allowed an opinion. That still doesn't address everyone else in this post and others that are complaining. All I've read on the forums is about how the spec is very clunky. All I've seen in game is no one using the spec.
    People are more likely to post a complaint about something they don't like than to post about something they do like so I wouldn't make any conclusions about public opinion on forum posts. I see plenty of people using the spec too.

    MM seems to divide the opinions quite a lot but so far I have not seen anyone actually explain why don't like the spec. It's all very vague "it's clunky", "it's too easy", "it's too difficult" etc. If the ones who don't like MM actually want changes then they should put some effort into explaining exactly what they think is wrong with it. Otherwise it will be dismissed as random dudes complaining with no information content.

  10. #70
    Plane Walker Eione's Avatar
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    MM is unlike our other souls. It has rotation blocks and it is more like a warrior soul than a rogue one. I'm supposed to learn by heart blocks and I don't like that at all.
    World 1st red trinket - finally retired. Tnx for chronicles!

  11. #71
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    Not sure who you are playing with then. I see mm just about everywhere. The rotation is not clunky. First stage cabalist rework on the pts when you had to apply 7 dots every 15 seconds on a 1.5 second gcd was clunky. MM buildup transitions are very smooth throughout any duration parse.
    I think the main issue people have with MM, and why they call it clunky, is Barbed Shot management. Most of the rotation re: Calculated and Swift shot plays similarly to Bladedancer, but once you throw Barbed shot in there they find themselves trying to put together these 12 second "blocks" between Rapid Fire Shots while attempting to maintain the 15s dot as well as Lightning Fury, and fitting all of that inside a package that doesn't push back Bull's Eye. None of the public guides have addressed this. It's just been "this is the normal rotation" and "this is what you do going into a channel" but no explanation on how to cleanly put those together.
    I'm ya boss baby, crank it like a chainsaw
    Rogue Moses of <Coriolis>
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  12. #72
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    I don't play it as blocks at all. It is fairly simple broken down as a priority system. I would hate to try and remember a minute worth of blocks. Barbed should simply be looked at as your second priority builder on a 15 second cool down.

    Edit: there are some exceptions ofc since you can manipulate each buildup to your advantage but that is more in depth. In the end, trying to block it out just doesn't work
    Last edited by haybale; 03-03-2015 at 07:04 AM.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  13. #73
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    I also play MM on a priority rotation basis except for the 1 minute burst block. When I parse on a dummy it becomes a standard rotation but in actual fights some mechanic always causes it play a bit differently so memorizing blocks isn't very good.

  14. #74
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Well that is what I am talking about. That is exactly what the majority of people that have asked me about it are doing, and I can only assume the same for the rest of the population. People see things like:

    Quote Originally Posted by ILikeOranges View Post
    Example builder block:
    Deadeye Shot -> Swift shot -> Empowered Shot -> Calculated Shot -> Swift Shot -> Rapid Fire shot -> Empowered Shot -> Deadeye Shot -> Calculated Shot -> Empowered Shot -> Swift Shot -> Calculated Shot -> (back to beginning)
    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    Rotation:
    Starting Block
    Deadeye Shot > Barded Shot > Lightning Fury > Calculated Shot

    Cooldown Block
    Bull's Eye > Empowered Shot > Rapid Fire Shot
    Empowered Shot > Deadeye Shot
    Sentry Battery > Empowered Shot > Deadeye Shot
    Strafe > Empowered Shot > Rapid Fire Shot
    Empowered Shot > Deadeye Shot

    Repetitive Block
    Swift Shot > Empowered Shot > Calculated Shot > Swift Shot > Deadeye Shot
    Calculated Shot > Empowered Shot > Swift Shot > Calculated Shot > Rapid Fire Shot
    Empowered Shot > Deadeye Shot
    and they focus on it.
    I'm ya boss baby, crank it like a chainsaw
    Rogue Moses of <Coriolis>
    "Everyone do their crafting dailies today?"
    Feed our Turtles, upload your combat logs!

  15. #75
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    The clunky-ness from Marksman stems from the swapping of swifts and calculated shots. In a "normal" rotation, each block alternates between starting with one or the other. That, on it's own, is painful enough. Next, you have barbed and lightning fury. Because of the nature of RFS, a normal "block" is 12s, but then you have a 15s ability and a 30s ability to mix in, both of which also mess with your swift/calc alternating, meaning a block has now been extended to a full 60 seconds.

    Then you have BES on 60s. In theory, this should line up perfectly with your RFS usage, and with your 1min WG/PCs. In practice, with server lag, by the time 60s has rolled around, your RFS is now 1-2 seconds behind (if not more), and we have that builder rotation (or 2) to get through. 2 to 3 minutes in, we're completely missing WG with BES.

    My guess, Vladd (and the testers) we trying to bring the blade-dancer feel to Marksman. Bladedancer works because you can develop muscle memory to execute during each of the dances (with there really being only 2 different memory patterns), and then you get to maintain that pattern for 24s+ at a time. With MM, you never get to hold the pattern long enough for it to become ingrained.

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