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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Soul Feedback - Marksman

  1. #31
    Plane Touched Illuyanka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asianguywithacamera View Post
    I agree. Pyro and Inq's rotation is very smooth. I learned both within 10 minutes. After 30-40 minutes on the new MM, things are just odd. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's either having to clip barbed shot before my channels and burst, trying to squeeze in sentry battery before bull's eye falls off, using hasted shot before calculated shot comes off c/d, etc.
    I'll disagree on this... As a main mage I pay pyro a lot, and pyro's rotation is not solid at all, depending on CB procs all the time, not using fusilade in high movement phases, etc. MM rotation is solid and really easy once you get used to it, and it's 1000 times more mobile than pyro or inq (with Deadeye shot being the only stand and cast skill). I got used to mm rotation in 15 mins.
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  2. #32
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    Can someone explain why new self buffs have 10s cooldown? Having to deal with purgeable buffs and spammable purges is already annoying, why do we also need cooldown on self buffs?
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

  3. #33
    Ascendant asianguywithacamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otts View Post
    Can someone explain why new self buffs have 10s cooldown? Having to deal with purgeable buffs and spammable purges is already annoying, why do we also need cooldown on self buffs?
    Probably an oversight when free recoil was changed.

  4. #34
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    My thoughts on it so far:

    It fine in PvP, basically feels like playing a good pyro but with purge instead of absorb shields. Goes down quicker then a pyro but can blow people up fast and can even down most, but not all heal specs if have enough time before having to withdraw. Having purge is an acceptable trade-off for the extra squishiness.

    In PvE it is disappointing to me. It has a very clunky rotation in order to get its full DPS out of it. You can simplify it via macros of course, so it plays more like my pyro or inq, but then you dont get the full DPS. I do not mind having a more complex rotation if its a nice flowing one, but I do mind it when its clunky like this.

    There is also a MM specific problem I am experiencing. I am a multi-role rogue and play many roles, souls, hybrids etc. I use a total of 14 role slots on regular basis, none of the other ones have this issue.

    Basically, the MM abilities have a "weird" delay for me that I can't quite put my finger on. Things literally do not execute in the order in which I press the buttons. This is causing the "misrotation" on what are already clunky mechanics and causing me to lose substantial chunk of DPS. I literally lose around 8 -12k when this happens, drop from my regular 60k+ down to 48-52k range, its very bad. I tested it over and over again, and it is as I say. The MM abilities are somehow just not executing on time or in order which I pressed the buttons. This rarely happens in my other specs, only when there is a ton of lag and everyone else is having same issues. In MM this happens very often, on regular basis.

    If I had to make 2 requests in regards to MM, it would be to fix the above problem, and make the rotation more smooth, not so clunky, as the combination of the 2 basically invalidates MM for me for raid DPS where tight checks are present, and which I would love to do.

  5. #35
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    Add:

    OK, ran around just now playing more with MM and other specs + spent considrable time on the raid dummy. What is happening to me, is that very often Bull's Eye and Energy Manipulation, which are "No Global Cooldown" abilities, do indeed trigger it. Not always but often.

    Sometimes a regular GCD is triggered where all my buttons get the "clockwise going shaded animation" on them, but more often then that, there is no animation, its just the delay is present.

    So I removed these 2 from the macros and put them on their own. There is still some sort of an unusual delay there somewhere, and of course that doesn't do anything for the overall epic clunky factor of it even when/if its working properly.

  6. #36
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    My guess is you have Free Recoil hiding in some macro and it's triggering the gcd.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    My guess is you have Free Recoil hiding in some macro and it's triggering the gcd.
    Nope.

    I continued to work on this for another hour or 2 after this post before our last nights raid.Double, and Triple checked all the macros, also I wasn't alone, we were on TS and all of us are experiencing these types of problems. This isnt something limited to me. We went over our macros, checked the rotations, etc. Its still happening.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shouku View Post
    Nope.

    I continued to work on this for another hour or 2 after this post before our last nights raid.Double, and Triple checked all the macros, also I wasn't alone, we were on TS and all of us are experiencing these types of problems. This isnt something limited to me. We went over our macros, checked the rotations, etc. Its still happening.
    There is a delay with Empowered Shot following Deadeye Shot because Lock and Load doesnt apply until the cast completes. I'd recommend putting Empowered on a separate key and it should fix your problem. There is no noticeable delay on any other ability that i am seeing.
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  9. #39
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    Some people also have "cast @self energy manipulation" in their spam builder macros which is a terrible idea because of Deadeye Shot. If you queue an ability with the macro during the cast time it will use energy manipulation and gives you lag instead of using a builder. I'd macro it to finishers instead or use it manually.

  10. #40
    Rift Disciple Cyng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otts View Post
    Yeah, meanwhile new Reaver and it's hybrids are 2-3 button spec with more dps and cleave.
    hell new reaver is a one button spam pulling 75k with only a finisher to follow.

  11. #41
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Wish Barbed Shot had a 12s duration it would take the randomness out of the rotation, 15s just makes it jump all over the place.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    Wish Barbed Shot had a 12s duration it would take the randomness out of the rotation, 15s just makes it jump all over the place.
    Yea, me too. I would love to see it much shorter duration and do more damage instead for the lost GCDs.

    The delay problem has for the large part been solved, it was indeed cast @self energy manipulation as stated a couple posts above. There is still something there, but on a rare occasion and we cant quite get what it is.

    And none of the above posts adresses the clunkiness of the spec. The things that make it clunky to me are as follows:

    1. Bull's Eye - 5 seconds is not enough - in order to get most out of this spec you need to execute RF + ES + DS (or HS if moving) + SB. The SB has to be executed within the last second (last tick) of Bull's Eye. The game is simply not build to properly handle many situations which cause lag, thus preventing SB from being executed within that last second too many times and devs need to account for this when designing specs and abilities, afterall, its their hardware infrastructure and their game engine. While it executes on time vast majority of the time, it still fails to execute properly despite everything being done correctly and on time at the player end.

    2. Clunky Shot - AKA Calculated shot - Pretty much as the name says. This whole part of it makes the spec feel bad. Clunky.

    3. Barbed Shot timing, as above, its duration is kinda off, very often its timed so that it expires right between finishers on RF+ES+DS (or HS). Somewhere dead smack in middle of that or during SB channel. If you use it too often, your DPS goes down, if you let it expire, your DPS goes down, so its a sort of "catch 22" situation with it as it is. It needs to be times so it can be reapplied reliably within a builder block every single time, never on the finisher block or in mid of SB channel, double that due to the 5 secs Bull's Eye catching on last sec when executing SB. Very poorly done on this part.


    Overall I thought there were some high end raiding players giving feedback on PTS regarding all this when it was being designed and worked on. I am very disappointed in them as well as the dev that went with it all. Spec is not well thought out.

    Also, spec does not scale well at low ends and doesn't really become effective until raid gear (or at least full expert tier), raid CDs etc. Too much raiding and raider testing went on, not enough testing for everyone else.
    Last edited by Shouku; 02-04-2015 at 08:20 AM.

  13. #43
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    The calculated mechanic was the best part of this rework IMO. Also barbed shot is always a gain compared to other builders besides empowered.

    Edit: jumped the gun and agree with your barbed shot timing assessment but I thought it should of just been a stacking damage debuff so timing was less of a factor since you can't maintain a dot 100% in this rotation.
    Last edited by haybale; 02-04-2015 at 10:00 AM.
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  14. #44
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    I'm sorry, I don't mean to run on in with Perseverance and Judicial Privilege up and drop Trepidation on all of you. But that is something I can do on my cleric.

    So this is it? Seriously? In order to get somewhat decent DPS, Marksman now needs to consume its own speed buffs and has a rotation that's lousy with no movement cast time attacks? And in return it does almost as much damage as Inquisitor.

    I don't expect them to add a new Judicial Privilege to a soul, but how about at least something along the lines of Harsh Discipline or a trickle from Contempt or Jolt? No? Well it will at least get the passive and active damage reductions that Tempest gets for some reason on top of its trickle heal. Oh, still no?

    I can understand why it doesn't get a CC break, since you can easily spec into Dark Passage, Elude, or Flicker. Wait, those have to be from other callings since I'm being told that rogues and rogues alone can't catch a break with a subsoul. Well thank God that the CC immunity from Strafe is disabled in PvP. That would be almost 5 seconds of stun immunity while using an ability that's not even the hardest hitting channel!

    I suppose that Deaden, Static Shot, and Repelling are supposed to match up with Bewilder, Trepidation, and Excommunicate. I don't think much matches an 8 second AoE CC with an unlimited number of targets that doesn't break on damage. But at least the difference here isn't stark, so next.

    So then where's its cooldown reset that allows it to squeeze in more burst during Flaring when you're not just parsing on a dummy? Right, the 36 point ability is now literally for people who are too lazy to swap specs for Combo Points before a pull.

    And Bull's Eye. What's one of the most terrible part of comparing warrior parses? Having to compare crit rates on individual abilities to see if RNG didn't swing it over to outlier status. Why in the bloody hell would that ever get replicated in a soul revamp? And it adds in the fun of hoping for no lag when you try to squeeze abilities into a fixed window like Deep Freeze to boot.

    But by all means, have fun on Threngar while Inquis add insult to injury and use the double dipping that they for some reason still have to clock in well over 100k in P1. Seriously. Is that intentional or just from a lack of caring or priorities?

    P.S.: Barbed's duration is clunky and what is that "Marksman channeled abilities" for anyway, to save us from Cadenza? Great.

    P.P.S.: lol reaver

  15. #45
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    I jumped on my war alt, and played a bit with Reaver, I literally started LOLing. Went kinda sad about my MM.

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