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Thread: A Cleric's Nightmare

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    CPK
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    Default A Cleric's Nightmare

    http://rift-planner.com/#?archetype=...18,5_&lang=eng

    This build utilizes what is possibly the best situational weapon enchantment available, Fell Blades, and combines it with the Infiltrator PvP soul to provide devastating results, namely against those heal-spamming clerics we all hate so much.

    Fell Blades has a 20% chance to decrease healing effectiveness used by the target by 50% for 15 seconds. Once this is applied, it is highly unlikely that it will not be re-applied within those 15 seconds, meaning it is essentially a permanent healing debuff as long as you are attacking that target.

    To accompany this, the Infiltrator ability Anathema is an activated ability that can be used every 30 seconds, further reducing heal effectiveness on the target by another 50% for the next heal and then 10% less for each following heal until the debuff is removed. I am going to assume that this will be 50% of the 50% from Fell Blades. For those of you who are mathematically challenged, this means that the next 5 heals will heal for 25%, 30%, 35%, 40%, and 45%, in that order, after the debuffs are applied.

    Not enough? Well then, while all of this is going on, this build can constantly drain the target for up to 750 mana per 5 combo points while still dishing out decent damage, using the Theft of Thought finisher in the Infiltrator tree. If that cleric is persistent enough to keep himself alive through all of that heal debuffing, then an empty mana pool should finish the job.

    All of this supported by a silence opener (Smother), cast interruptions (Dark Containment from Nightblade and Pardon the Interruption from Infiltrator), and even a buff strip spell (Sleight of Hand), any cleric who runs into this build is gonna be having nightmares for weeks. Yes... I hate clerics.
    Last edited by CPK; 01-31-2011 at 08:40 PM.

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    I have to be honest; Fel Blades seems like an absurdly powerful PvP talent, even with only a 20% chance to proc.

    How fast are rogue melee weapons generally anyway?

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    I believe that the GCD is 1 second (maybe less for rogues?), and then auto-attacks from both the main-hand and off-hand weapons must also be taken account, which are dependent on what weapons you use. In other words, once the debuff is applied (which will most likely happen within the first few seconds of attacks), it is there to stay until the end of the fight. It is basically a permanent debuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPK View Post
    I believe that the GCD is 1 second (maybe less for rogues?), and then auto-attacks from both the main-hand and off-hand weapons must also be taken account, which are dependent on what weapons you use.
    Yes, I know this... I was just wondering what sort of range of auto-attack rates we could expect.

    In other words, once the debuff is applied (which will most likely happen within the first few seconds of attacks), it is there to stay until the end of the fight. It is basically a permanent debuff.
    Yeah that seems a bit ridiculous. Or are they counting on the Assassin being flimsy enough that unless he gets a quick kill he'll be vulnerable to attacks from other players?

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    This particular build has very high survivability. Twilight Shelter in Nightblade by itself is simply amazing. The Riftstalker's Exceptional Resilience gives almost permanent 30% damage reduction against enemies that score critical hits regularly, which is one of the main reasons that I took it as the third soul (along with planes-shifting). I don't know about later on, but last Beta I was able to survive entire teams of players for a good amount of time with these abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wenry View Post
    I have to be honest; Fel Blades seems like an absurdly powerful PvP talent, even with only a 20% chance to proc.

    How fast are rogue melee weapons generally anyway?
    I'm sorry what are you basing this opinion on? tool tip alone? cleric builds? actual game play vs rogues as a 30 cleric? The OP's build is a possible counter to the very real and already tested insane survivability of some cleric builds.

    It also has weaknesses. Sorry but I really dislike people just flouting out comments like yours based on... who knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedayken View Post
    I'm sorry what are you basing this opinion on? tool tip alone? cleric builds? actual game play vs rogues as a 30 cleric? The OP's build is a possible counter to the very real and already tested insane survivability of some cleric builds.

    It also has weaknesses. Sorry but I really dislike people just flouting out comments like yours based on... who knows
    Eh? I don't think he was insulting in any way, but rather just making an observation. It certainly is insanely powerful against clerics, which was the point of the post. And yes, It may have its weaknesses like all builds, but I think I was able to minimize them to yield the best outcome for PvP against many different opponents.

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    I'm pretty sure you will only be able to spend a max of 20 points into your PvP soul and you buy those points with Valor only when you hit level 50. Also, from what I understand from listening to literally every Rift podcast out there, that you will have to choose one path and one path only.

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    im willing to beat those 2 heal debuffs dont stack since they do the same thing. An outgoing heal debuff (are there any?) and incoming like NBs probably would though. reducing the cleric healing himself by 75%
    Last edited by jaym7018; 01-31-2011 at 07:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyzar View Post
    I'm pretty sure you will only be able to spend a max of 20 points into your PvP soul and you buy those points with Valor only when you hit level 50. Also, from what I understand from listening to literally every Rift podcast out there, that you will have to choose one path and one path only.
    20 points would not even allow you to put a point into the ultimate ability that requires 20 points to unlock.
    And from the podcasts, I think what they mean is that you have to follow a particular path to unlock the abilities further down that path. I'm pretty sure you can still distribute points between the different branches, though. Either way, no big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaym7018 View Post
    im willing to beat those 2 heal debuffs dont stack since they do the same thing. An outgoing heal debuff like chloros and incoming like NBs probably would though. reducing the cleric healing himself by 75%
    They will stack because they don't do the same thing. One debuff reduces the healing done, and the other reduces the healing taken.

    To elaborate, if I was attacking a warrior and debuffed him with Fell Blades, then a cleric who decided to heal the warrior would only heal him for 50%. However, Anathema would have no effect since the warrior would not be the one casting the heals.

    On the other hand, If I debuffed a cleric with Fell Blades, he would still be able to heal other targets fine, whereas if I used Anathema, those heals would have 50% effectiveness on all targets.

    If a cleric heals himself with these debuffs applied, however, he is casting a heal with 50% effectiveness onto a target that only receives 50% healing. Two different things, same results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedayken View Post
    I'm sorry what are you basing this opinion on? tool tip alone? cleric builds? actual game play vs rogues as a 30 cleric? The OP's build is a possible counter to the very real and already tested insane survivability of some cleric builds.

    It also has weaknesses. Sorry but I really dislike people just flouting out comments like yours based on... who knows
    Um... based on how rogues work in most games...?

    Yeah, one shouldn't make too many assumptions, but it's not like all the class mechanics in this game are completely novel and incomprehensible without first person experience...

    And I said it seemed absurdly powerful. I asked the follow-up question to get a better idea of how powerful this would be.

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    I like the discussion. The OP has some good points and I do think the skills will stack..but I am really concerned about its lack of CC and burst compared to some other roles builds at these levels.

    I also wasn't meaning to be harsh Wenry. This game has all of these souls.. and stacking of abilities amongst them. I'm hard pressed to try and compare it to other games role wise.

    Clerics will be the #1 rolled archetype mark me on this...they can have quite decent DPS ranged and melee...shields, heals.. CC, damage mitigating skills, all wrapped up into one little pony. ( although they do seem to need to pick a range or melee spec at least )

    There needs to be some type of legit counter to them if something like this is it then that would be awesome. At least to keep them honest.

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    Void Knights are another hard counter to clerics, just check the cleric forums.
    Concerning CC, the build has Twilight Force for a 6-second 60% snare every 10 seconds, an opener silence, and a ranged incapacitate that is usable in-combat. What sort of CC are you worried about, exactly? Getaways? Because there's also the planes-shifting from Riftstalker if you're trying to put in some distance. In any case, I don't think the class really needs CC that badly since it is capable of both range and melee, so neither closing the distance nor increasing it are always necessary.

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    Fel Blades are considered a curse - lvl 2 root ability in warden tree has a cleanse that removes 1 curse, poison and disease. Since wardens are a popular choice for healers, chances are the debuff will be removed pretty often.
    mana drain is awesome. (also can only spend 21 points in pvp tree, but you can fix that by removed 3 points from focused intent)

    It is a very good anit healer build, arguably the best a rogue can make. But what about other classes? You are missing out on all the abilities offered by other souls (say blade dancer for evasion and sprint) So it's fairly balanced. It's great against none wardens, and pretty good against them too (and other casters) but misses out on a decent bunch of abilities vs melee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tester13 View Post
    Fel Blades are considered a curse - lvl 2 root ability in warden tree has a cleanse that removes 1 curse, poison and disease. Since wardens are a popular choice for healers, chances are the debuff will be removed pretty often.
    mana drain is awesome. (also can only spend 21 points in pvp tree, but you can fix that by removed 3 points from focused intent)

    It is a very good anit healer build, arguably the best a rogue can make. But what about other classes? You are missing out on all the abilities offered by other souls (say blade dancer for evasion and sprint) So it's fairly balanced. It's great against none wardens, and pretty good against them too (and other casters) but misses out on a decent bunch of abilities vs melee.
    It is possible that it will be somewhat relatively squishy against melee, but it definitely has its tricks for those situations as well. First off, it has great offensive potential against melee. The Nightblade is all about elemental damage, meaning it can bypass plate armor more effectively than any other Rogue soul. Take a look at Scourge of Darkness - I have personally tested this finisher and the spike damage is nothing short of incredible. Also, the 10% armor penetration from the Infiltrator tree is a plus, although Nightblade unfortunately does not gain the full benefit from this since it only affects physical damage.

    The Nightblade also has ranged abilities for a reason. This build is quite capable of limited kiting. Look at Ebon Fury: this allows for the Rogue to spam Twilight Force for 15 seconds, allowing it to keep the enemy at 40% run speed until it is removed or until dimishing returns take effect.

    Defensively, as mentioned earlier, Twilight Shelter reduces all damage taken by 80% for 8 seconds, while only giving the Rogue a 40% damage penalty. Many melee builds are also crit-heavy, so the 30% damage reduction after critical hits will be almost 100% reliable. To finish it off, since you can only invest 21 points into a PvP soul, those points could easily be transferred to Nightblade for the 38-point ability, Twilight Trancendence, giving 4 seconds of complete immunity to all damage without any penalty to the Rogue. Needless to say, I think it will be able to hold its own against most opponents. This build is just specialized for destroying those pesty clerics!

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