+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: Mastery Feedback

  1. #1
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,837

    Default Mastery Feedback

    After getting the chance to play around with rogue masteries a bit more on live, here's my take on them.


    Level 61


    Safeguard - It's good, but I don't really like how much of a no-brainer it is for tanks. Increased guaranteed mitigation from Guard would already be enough to make it the right choice 100% of the time, but slapping on a damage/threat increase of around 40% is over the top. In my opinion, the survivability tier should be the tier where tanks have to think the hardest because it's the thing that we care about the most, and instead it's not even a contest. Moving the secondary to a different mastery doesn't necessarily help much, because either Riftstalker has comparable threat to other tanks without the damage penalty and is incapable of holding threat with it, or it's comparable with it and is overpowered without it.

    Aggressive Defense - I like this mastery a lot. The primary effect, although relatively weak, is still interesting, and the secondary effect makes Ranger's rotation more dynamic, and increases the reward for doing it properly.

    Planar Replenishment - Another solid mastery. The Power Chord component is still relatively useless, since you'll just put up your Motifs before combat anyways, but the passive heal is handy for soloing and the core duration increase is very nice for Tactician. That being said, I would like it if we had a way to track the duration of cores, maybe via a buff-- it used to be that you could just look at the cooldown, but the duration and cooldown no longer match up.

    Soul Steal - The secondary effect on this mastery is fine, but the primary is just awful. The only time that you get enough killing blows to get any kind of consistency out of it is in soloing builds, but it's really just a much worse version of Boosted Recovery, since it heals for much less and has an internal cooldown. The healing would probably need to be at least tripled for it to be worthwhile-- 4% of your health over 5s is nothing.


    Level 62


    Overall, I like this tier a lot. It doesn't offer much to DPS specs, but for tanks and healers there are interesting tradeoffs and choices.

    Watch Over - This mastery manages to be useful to both tanks and healers.

    Revitalize - This one is the choice for almost every DPS spec, but it's also fantastic for Riftstalker. Extra healing is always good, and it gives some much-needed range.

    Ascended Biology - Another good Physician talent. The only real complaint I have about this is that it's the only real choice for Bard on a tier that should be more about options. Swapping the secondary with Adamant Resolve might help with this, but I think that Adamant Resolve would just become the new no-brainer.

    Adamant Resolve - This is probably the least useful of the masteries on this tier. The primary issue is the way that it interacts with different healing specs. Something like a Chloro isn't going to get as much leverage out of a single crit as, say, a Sentinel or Physician. Changing it into something like "you receive X% increased healing for 3 seconds after you receive a critical hit" might work better. The secondary here is useful, but not necessarily very interesting.


    Level 63


    Sprinter's Guile - I'm not opposed to this mastery per se, but I think that the competition on the tier would need to be more varied in terms of mobility for this to be interesting. The secondary is, I suspect, mostly useless. Generally, fights either allow you to stack, in which case the radius increase is useless, or you have to spread out, in which case you wouldn't be close enough anyways. It might have had some use in PvP, if only Guard weren't so weak. The secondary ends up feeling like filler more than anything else.

    Juke and Run - The idea of having multiple movement options that function in different ways is a good one, but the difference between this and Sprinter's Guile is too small to be noticed. 12% movement speed versus 10%? The only question you have to ask is if you're planning to be in combat or not, which means that Juke and Run is better for pretty much everything other than solo specs and maybe Karthan Ridge.

    Unstoppable - The crowd control reduction here is great-- it fits into the mobility theme of the tier, but in an unexpected way-- instead of directly allowing you to get around better, it makes it harder for people to keep you from doing things. Unfortunately, attaching Planar Reversal to this presents problems. If an enemy notices that you are teleporting behind them, all they have to do is put their back to a cliff and you won't be able to port to them without falling off. Being able to teleport behind targets is useful, but you need to be able to control when it happens.

    Boundless Energy - More than almost any other mastery, this just feels like a band-aid to cover up issues. It increases Marksman's damage output in the most boring way possible, and it helps to "fix" energy starvation by locking specs into using this specific mastery. As a stopgap measure until we can get more comprehensive reworks to address energy and MM damage, I guess it's okay. I'm just concerned that it might be considered a long-term solution instead of an interim one.


    Level 64


    Repetitive Strikes - I feel like this is a mastery that tries to be more interesting than it actually is. The tooltip could read "increases your damage by 6%", and almost nothing would change. Effects that stack up via builders and aren't consumed in some way generally fail to be interesting, because they're effectively just always-on passives. I don't know what could be done to fix it, though. The secondary is potentially nice for hybrids and target swaps, but it doesn't really have the same kind of "oomph" as the more interesting secondaries.

    Timed Focus - The primary effect here is by far the most interesting of the level 64 masteries, in my opinion. It's technically just a flat increase to your damage, but it does so in an interesting way and opens up possibilities in terms of burst damage, which is potentially useful in PvP. One thing, though-- it should probably be able to crit so that it scales with gear. Also, the secondary effect helps Bladedancer out a lot by giving us two surplus dances instead of one, which means that we can switch mid-dance more often if necessary.

    Through the Ether - I'd argue that this succeeds at what Repetitive Strikes tried and failed to do-- it's a passive damage increase that manages to be cool and interesting. Damage type conversion is a unique mechanic, and ignoring armor/resistance feels good without being overpowered. The secondary is, unfortunately, overshadowed by Timed Focus, because the extra damage from Viral Infection procs is pretty much always better for Physician.

    Even Strikes - I know I've said this before, but I hate this mastery. I hated it from the moment it first appeared in beta, and it's still just as bad. I hate it so much. It breaks specs. Our souls simply have too many things that are reliant on getting crits. Worse yet, it disproportionately punishes people depending on their gear-- losing 4% crit is crippling if you're in blues and greens, but will be far less impactful for someone that's in raid gear. This is also a problem when you compare crit chances with and without raid buffs. It absolutely fails to be an interesting trade-off because of the way that it sabotages the core mechanics of half our DPS specs. Maybe it would be interesting if it were a different tradeoff, like increasing crit chance at the expense of damage or increasing damage at the expense of crit power, because at least those wouldn't be at odds with the way that our rotations and builds work. I don't really have anything to say about the secondary.


    Level 65


    I'm very underwhelmed with this tier. None of the masteries feel rogue-ish in any way-- there's nothing that feels like it relates to agility, or ingenuity, or outsmarting opponents. I would have loved to maybe even see some old, removed abilities brought back here in somewhat altered form, like a longer cooldown version of Shadow Warp or a twist on the original Blackout that drained your health in exchange for negating hits.

    Energy Manipulation - This is an ability that you macro to everything in your rotation so that it's used on cooldown, and then never think about it again. It's off-GCD, it contributes to energy starvation, and it's mindless-- in other words, it takes some of worst aspects of the rotations of our most problematic specs and distills them into a single ability. Also, it has two versions that aren't different in any meaningful way.

    Apothecary's Will - This has some interesting functionality that isn't very useful in practice. Like Energy Manipulation, it has target-contextual versions for no real reason, because unless you're casting it on an enemy that switches targets multiple times in a 5-second period to do extreme single-target damage to each, casting it on an enemy will do the same thing as casting it on their target. The real issue here is that it's competing with Planar Variation, which is pretty much always better.

    Planar Variation - This is probably the most interesting of the 65 masteries. It does two very different things, and does them fairly well. For instance, you might be able to use its burst AoE to squeak by on some fights as Assassin without needing to switch to, say Nightblade, and it adds some disconnect options for Bladedancer. At the same time, it's also a potent defensive ability.

    Planar Conservation - Everything that I said about Boundless Energy applies here, too. Energy really needs a complete overhaul (and Living Energy and the equivalent buffs need to die in a fire)... but as a short-term stand-in, I can live with this. Just please don't think of it as a solved problem.
    Last edited by Muspel; 10-25-2014 at 10:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,724

    Default

    I agree with much of this and had sent in feedback to the same effect.

    In particular: The redundancy of Sprinter's Guile and Juke and Run in the same tier (one talent increases run speed by 12% the other by 10%; they're far, far too much alike to justify them being different talents), the uninspired (to say the least; not one of them says "Rogue" and you'd think they were for a Mage if you looked at the effects) level 65 masteries and the way Even Strikes doesn't really make sense for Rogues when we have sooooo many effects in our souls that require crits to enable them.


    As above though I do really like Aggressive Defense and Timed Focus for their secondary effects as they actually significantly change up the gameplay of Ranger and Bladedancer (making the former much less mindless).
    Last edited by Kedon; 10-26-2014 at 03:03 AM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    i'm certainly not gonna write that much, but i don't think a lot of these were very well thought out.

    for example, aggressive defense contributes greatly to ranger's energy starvation while boundless energy and planar conservation are not enough to compensate. i'm still energy starved during my rotation in experts. i was also expecting a mastery to "fix" ranger's 30m range limitation, but i guess that was overlooked.
    starplatinum@greybriar
    bluebarbie@greybriar
    twitch
    youtubes

  4. #4
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ecru View Post
    i'm certainly not gonna write that much, but i don't think a lot of these were very well thought out.

    for example, aggressive defense contributes greatly to ranger's energy starvation while boundless energy and planar conservation are not enough to compensate. i'm still energy starved during my rotation in experts. i was also expecting a mastery to "fix" ranger's 30m range limitation, but i guess that was overlooked.
    actually now that i parsed it out, this doesn't seem to be the case. i was sure i had the buff active for the past few nights.
    starplatinum@greybriar
    bluebarbie@greybriar
    twitch
    youtubes

  5. #5
    Ascendant Ailene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Far far north (Norway)
    Posts
    2,359

    Default

    Not gonna comment on all, so just adding my thought to where I feel it's needed. Also, would like to see masteries in a raid before deciding fully how I feel about each of them. Barely touched PvP as well, so find it a bit too soon to tell, after mainly been questing and doing Experts.

    Level 61:

    Aggressive Defense and Soul Steal - are a bit weak, but I don't think it's bad having like Soul Steal as an option for soloing.

    Planar Replenishment - now I might be biased here, but I think the change to Power Chord is far from useless. I think it's very handy to be able to get up all motifs in one hit (and on top of that do some damage and get 2 cp up). It's not meant to be used before pull. But if you ever raided as Bard, you sure must have died some times and wanted to put up your buffs and motifs fast? Or dealt with movements where you're not hitting anything, be it boss mechanics or moving between trash packs? Also handy in PvP, standing there waiting for the enemy group to appear, spamming motifs to have them up, is just annoying. Agree though that it would be nice to track the Tact Cores, but Vladd said that was possible to fix, so I hope for that to come in the future.

    Level 62

    Not much to add, but Adament Resolve is heal received isn't it? If so, I see no reason to swap the secondary with Ascended Biology. I'm pretty sure a NB or NB/Sin could use it more than a Bard. Not tried it in raid yet and could be interesting to see how it works with a pocket healer in PvP.

    Level 63

    Sprinter's Guile - increased radius of Guard, not tried raiding yet after 3.0, but if this can be the difference between Guard hitting the melee group or not, it can be useful imo.

    Unstoppable - I can't post without saying how much I love what it does to Kiss of Life! As for the port, if people really risk standing with their back to the cliff, just in case you port to them. Firs of all, then don't port to them with that mastery. Second, change it to something else and knock them off instead.

    Level 64

    I like the damage from Biofeedback, to be honest trash is the hardest part of healing in Experts. Having some extra AoE damage when you keep your tank alive, feels (or maybe just looks....) a lot better than having an extra damage hit every 5-6 second. However for a boss fight (raid) I'd probably go with Timed Focus instead, but good to have options for different content. I noticed something though, if you cast Causal T and then Expectant T right after, it doesn't add a stack for the hit of VI from both. Probably as they hit pretty much at the same time.

    Level 65

    Not much to add here, as I've mainly been using Planar Conservation so far. Would have to try the others more, but really not spending much time on testing as there's so much else to do atm.

  6. #6
    Privateer Captain Lufia5's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    194

    Default

    Does anybody know how it is determined which version of Planar Variation you get? Because if you combine for example 61sin/11stalker/4tac you get the healing version instead of the aoe version which I wanted to try with this combination.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lufia5 View Post
    Does anybody know how it is determined which version of Planar Variation you get? Because if you combine for example 61sin/11stalker/4tac you get the healing version instead of the aoe version which I wanted to try with this combination.
    You get both. When you use the ability, it casts the damaging version if you're targeting an enemy, and the healing version if you're targeting an ally.

  8. #8
    Privateer Captain Lufia5's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    194

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    You get both. When you use the ability, it casts the damaging version if you're targeting an enemy, and the healing version if you're targeting an ally.
    Ah thanks for the clarification. It's a bit irritating that the tooltip only shows the healing version when placed in the skillbar.
    Last edited by Lufia5; 10-28-2014 at 11:46 AM.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    259

    Default

    I understand the two, target dependent versions of Apothecary's Will and Planar Variation, but I can't, for the life of me, figure out why you would want to debuff the target versus just buffing yourself with Energy Manipulation.

    In fact, if you do not macro cast @self in an aoe rotation (e.g. NB), you are not getting the full amount of damage since only one target would get hit by the bonus damage. Maybe I am wrong and the damage values are different in live, but the riftgrate layout shows that the damage is the same.

    NMT T1: Cleared
    NMT T2: 10/11 HK | 4/4 iGP HM

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ecru View Post
    i'm certainly not gonna write that much, but i don't think a lot of these were very well thought out.

    for example, aggressive defense contributes greatly to ranger's energy starvation while boundless energy and planar conservation are not enough to compensate. i'm still energy starved during my rotation in experts. i was also expecting a mastery to "fix" ranger's 30m range limitation, but i guess that was overlooked.
    I think they expect you to go Ranger/MM if you want to go 35m.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    I understand the two, target dependent versions of Apothecary's Will and Planar Variation, but I can't, for the life of me, figure out why you would want to debuff the target versus just buffing yourself with Energy Manipulation.

    In fact, if you do not macro cast @self in an aoe rotation (e.g. NB), you are not getting the full amount of damage since only one target would get hit by the bonus damage. Maybe I am wrong and the damage values are different in live, but the riftgrate layout shows that the damage is the same.
    Great point and probably overlooked, the debuff would be situational and not necessarily benefit you in terms of personal outgoing damage done.
    Shayde@Seastone

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    I understand the two, target dependent versions of Apothecary's Will and Planar Variation, but I can't, for the life of me, figure out why you would want to debuff the target versus just buffing yourself with Energy Manipulation.

    In fact, if you do not macro cast @self in an aoe rotation (e.g. NB), you are not getting the full amount of damage since only one target would get hit by the bonus damage. Maybe I am wrong and the damage values are different in live, but the riftgrate layout shows that the damage is the same.
    It's potentially useful in PvP, since it means that it can continue proccing while someone else is attacking the target (if, say, you yourself end up being CCed or outranged).

    But yes, I agree that the cast-on-target version has extremely limited utility, and very few tears would be shed if it was self-cast only.
    Last edited by Muspel; 10-29-2014 at 08:09 AM.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched arbaal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    229

    Default nice summary

    I agree with many points, especially in regards to lvl 64 masteries.

    Even Strikes I would love to see current implementation replaced with the following:
    +12% Crit Hit Rating, -5% Damage.

    Why? Would put our crit rating more @ parity with other classes. A lot of the new gear that has effects that work on Crit Hit. Add more depth to gear choices as well. Maybe someone would actually want to aim to crit soft cap if it was attainable (yes maybe not ideal for MIN/MAX) but hey.

  14. #14
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talzoor View Post
    I think they expect you to go Ranger/MM if you want to go 35m.
    while "they" might expect me to put 5 points into a sub soul to get the range that pyro/inq/tempest gets for free, these kinds of arbitrary requirements have no place in the game and need to be fixed/removed.

    there is no good reason for rogues to have to spec into a sub soul to get the same range as everyone else. honestly, i'd like to hear vladd justify this one himself.
    starplatinum@greybriar
    bluebarbie@greybriar
    twitch
    youtubes

  15. #15
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    2,348

    Default

    Well, let's take a look at things like this. I think that clerics have a relatively decent set of masteries to work with. To be clear, I don't think they need to be nerfed - rather, I think they're a good example to look at. So here's an overview comparing them with rogue masteries:

    Mastery Feedback-masterycompare.jpg

    With the secondaries broken out separately, rogues have the fewest masteries of any calling. On top of that, they have a large number of masteries that do not increase the DPS potential of their souls and don't give other utility: Planar Replenishment 2, Juke and Run 2, Unstoppable 3, Repetitive Strikes 2, Even Strikes 2.

    Saboteur has no secondary to increase its DPS potential. Tactician has all of Planar Replenishment 2. Though I suppose I'd just as well write them off for the moment and look at ones that matter more first.

    When it comes to range increases, clerics have the option to increase all ranged by 5m, ride the lightning/fae step by 10m, and fervent strike to 20m. Mages likewise have the option to increase all ranged by 5m (Healing Exigency), and Blade Rush and Avalanche by 10m (Sparkling Destruction). Warriors can increase their charges/teleports by 4m, Reckless/Pacifying Strike to 20m, and already have 35m coverage within their ranged soul.

    That does leave rogues as the only calling without a charge range increase and a need to use DPS-impacting subsouls instead of masteries to obtain 35m range with a ranged soul.

    Any yes, it does look like there's an increasing focus on critical hits to maintain buffs and trigger procs from synergy crystals and items. For the calling with the lowest critical chance, it would have been nice to see a mastery help out with this even if it didn't actually impact the overall crit rate of abilities. For example, if the 5 stack effect from Timed Focus was always a critical even if it did the same (or less) damage than now - or any of the other DPS masteries do something similar.

    Note about EM: The debuff version has a stack triggered by each tick of a DoT whilst the self-buff version does not.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts