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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Upcoming Rogue Changes - 2.6 and Beyond.

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
    Rift Team
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    Default Upcoming Rogue Changes - 2.6 and Beyond.

    Ok, so finally getting around to editing this and posting some of the changes that are currently up on PTS along with some that I have floating around in my head. Keep in mind that this list is a work in progress and will be updated regularly. If you don't see something on the list right now, that doesn't mean that I'm not thinking about it or working on it.

    Few changes coming down the pipe for Rogues. Should be in next week's patch.

    Physician:

    Emergency Response: Can no longer crit. This puts it inline with the other abilities similar to it such as Essence Surge and Touch of Life. It also cannot be affected by any +healing abilities such as the Tactician gift or Palliative Care.

    Alternative Treatment: Now off Global Cooldown. Costs 10 energy. 10 second cooldown. It will still remove itself if the Rogue goes to 0 energy.

    I'm not completely sold that it should stay there until toggled off by the Rogue but this is the compromise that I agreed to.

    Under Consideration:

    Riftstalker:

    Repurposing Planar Reversal to be a 10m AoE taunt with a 20s cooldown like all of the other tank souls have.

    Lot of good ideas already in this thread and I've still got plenty of notes from the last thread. Keep them ideas coming! As always, keep the thread constructive.
    Last edited by Vladd; 06-05-2014 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Trufrost's Avatar
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    OK once everyone settles down and checks how the changes work lets post our new ideas here. first post woot
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    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    for sab perhaps take the CD off of spike bomb and/or chemical bomb so that there's more stuff to do besides like 2-3 buttons and it helps in movement fights.


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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    I wonder what Vladd plans to do with bladedancer, that i'm mostly concerned about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  5. #5
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Pardon the repost, but I still think something like the below would work to nudge Sab out of its current two-button sadness:

    Probably best to cut out some DPS from the spam incentivizing abilities, such as HE ticks proc'd by direct damage bombs and straight Spike Bomb spam. And then resituate it into abilities that promote a for-reals rotation, such as Shrapnel Bomb, the "secondary" charges (blast/shrapnel) and even traps.

    Something like:
    • Decrease the damage of Spike Bomb. Decrease the maximum number of stacks of Thistle Spike while keeping the same % bonus.
    • Decrease the damage of High Explosives.
    • Increase the damage of Shrapnel Bomb.
    • Increase the damage of Shrapnel Charge/Blast Charge, possibly through Residual Shapnel to avoid too much spike. Only up to around ~75% of the DoT charges, but at least to where Blast > Caltrop for ST after Residual Shrapnel.
    • Decrease the CDs on Ember Bomb and Splinter Bomb to ~3s and change their damage to be half DoT, Volcanic Bomb style (so no longer macro spammable without DPS loss).
    • Either remove the cast time of traps or have Trench Warfare reduce the cast time by 20/40/60/80/100%.
    • Reduce trap CDs to 10 seconds for Booby Trap/Barbed Trap.
    • Have Carpet Bombing also remove the energy cost of the next 3 bombs used.
    • After the changes, evaluate 61 Sab versus the 54/22 variants and buff Molotov Cocktail as needed to keep the 61 point build relevant.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    pretty funny to see the replaced passive for MM "Range Combat Mastery".

    i mean im not complaining or anything but, that 2% tho lol

  7. #7
    Ascendant Rounded's Avatar
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    1) Make all rogue melee DPS specs competitive to shamans, harbingers tempagons and who knows what the warriors are going to come up with later this week.

    2) Make all rogue ranged DPS specs (which are not AoE) be competitive with warlock, inquisitor and tempest

    3) Make rogue support do at least BM-level of DPS

    Or just do as you did, take every single idea from all the threads and just implement them straight into the game.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Nynja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    for sab perhaps take the CD off of spike bomb and/or chemical bomb so that there's more stuff to do besides like 2-3 buttons and it helps in movement fights.
    play it with more than 2 buttons and explore the reward..duh
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    Vladd I know that you are in general against moving abilities up and down in to soul tree, but current Eradicate is way too weak for 44 points of investment.

    I would suggest replacing Eradicate slot with Deadeye shot and adding the following changes:

    - Deadeye shot is now instant cast instead of 1.5 sec channel dmg in player vs player reduced by "X" %

    With instant cast time it would boost MM dmg in PvE without affecting balance in PvP. It is also more enjoyale to use instant cast abilities (at least for me)

    Another way to improve MM dmg in PvE mostly is to add some dmg over time to Eradicate (cleanseable in pvp)

    Though, the first suggestion would also help with hybridizations for other ranged souls, like Bard, Tact, Sab, etc.

    I hope you'll consider testing such changes at least on PTS, so more players can post their feedback after testing. =)
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    make deadeye shot 1sec cast time

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    Just my own opinions for the most part.

    Ranger

    - Twin Shot - I believe that this currently makes up too large a % of the Ranger's damage. Amongst other problems this means you're still very reliant on getting crits on this one ability for your damage. I'd tone it a little back some and disperse the damage through other abilities by some means (that said Ranger as a whole as in need of a bit of a DPS bump so Rogues have something competitive for ranged DPS).


    - Head Shot - Related to the above. After you get Twin Shot you only use this once every 60 seconds for the little 5% damage buff. I dunno, some may disagree, but this seems kind of... weird to me.

    I would suggest making this used more often - perhaps by adding a bleed component to it near the top of the tree or deeper in the roots somehow. This could also split the DPS between Head and Twin Shot a little more evenly.

    e.g. Cruel Barbs - Head Shot deals an additional x% of it's damage over 15 seconds.


    - AoEs - Trick Shot and Improved Trick Shot, they just don't really feel like they belong here right now. An AoE builder without an AoE finisher is kind of... yeah. Spamming Rain of Arrows is far beter damage if you really , for whatever reason, want to use an AoE as a Ranger anyway.

    Two options. Make Rain of Arrows an AoE finisher or just remove Trick Shot entirely and put something else in there, leaving Rain of Arrows as the only AoE.


    - Pets The Boar's AoE threat is notoriously terrible for soloing. If that's something you're okay with improving reduce Razor Quills cooldown by a fair bit.

    The Wolf just isn't useful. For anything. Raptor is more durable and actually does a fair amount of damage - the Howl ability in particular is absolutely ineffective (the wolf barely tickles for more than the pig). Whatever the tooltip says about the Wolf being a PvP pet it just isn't true in practice.

    Like I've suggested before, I'd forget the PvP label and make the Wolf a ST specialist pet, whilst giving the Raptor some cleave ability along the same sort of power as the Druid's Fairy Seer (at the cost of less ST damage than the Wolf obviously).
    Last edited by Kedon; 02-12-2014 at 04:14 PM.

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    Telaran
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    Put orchestra in at a lower level like 51 or something so bards get some of that hybrid actions the other supports have been getting. Dont know what to put up top maybe make the shield a better defensive cd and place it there. That way hybrids are dps oriented and pure is defensive oriented.

    Make power cord into a cd that makes the bard use it. Like make power cord give a 5 second buff which can be consumed by using a damaging or healing finisher. Depending on which finisher you used you get a buff like enchances the focus of the finisher you used on it.
    -Single target finisher causes verse of agony to give 2 combo points when used and increases its damage and cadenzas at the cost of reducing healing done by some amount.
    -Aoe finisher could make multiple occ cause enemies hit by cadenza or cadence to pulse damage to 3 targets around them for whatever amount of damage the dev want at the cost of the single target finisher and verse of agony being disabled
    -Healing finsher could make cadance heal 10 people instead of 5 and make verse of restoration heal twice as much at the cost of multiple occ damage reduction being increased even higher.

    Probably too wordy for an ability but maybe each single target finisher could have what it does when augmented with power cord. Make power cords cd 1 min or 30secs and the buff on using the finisher last 20 seconds.
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  13. #13
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    Ranged Combat Mastery - make it increase range of ranged attacks by 10 meters instead. This is purely a pvp oriented change and would give marksmen an upper hand over tempests.
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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zadaine07 View Post
    Put orchestra in at a lower level like 51 or something so bards get some of that hybrid actions the other supports have been getting. Dont know what to put up top maybe make the shield a better defensive cd and place it there. That way hybrids are dps oriented and pure is defensive oriented.

    Make power cord into a cd that makes the bard use it. Like make power cord give a 5 second buff which can be consumed by using a damaging or healing finisher. Depending on which finisher you used you get a buff like enchances the focus of the finisher you used on it.
    -Single target finisher causes verse of agony to give 2 combo points when used and increases its damage and cadenzas at the cost of reducing healing done by some amount.
    -Aoe finisher could make multiple occ cause enemies hit by cadenza or cadence to pulse damage to 3 targets around them for whatever amount of damage the dev want at the cost of the single target finisher and verse of agony being disabled
    -Healing finsher could make cadance heal 10 people instead of 5 and make verse of restoration heal twice as much at the cost of multiple occ damage reduction being increased even higher.

    Probably too wordy for an ability but maybe each single target finisher could have what it does when augmented with power cord. Make power cords cd 1 min or 30secs and the buff on using the finisher last 20 seconds.
    The first part certainly makes sense. It doesn't have to be a 20 point ability. Put it somewhere in between Flaring Power and Enrage in terms of points so put it in as a low 40's ability.

    The rest I think is a little out there, not because they are bad ideas in and of themselves, you just need to focus. Increasing the dps or hps a LITTLE would be nice. You could likely do that anyway so long as we could run a bard version of say pyro/harbcon via hybrid building. The main issue atm is OoP. Lower that in the tree OR just make it better. Really no one uses it for the healing or the damage, it is just there for the damage boost.

    The problem is I REALLY have NO CLUE how you would make that work though. In looking at the tree how would you swap things around? /shrug

  15. #15
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    Cool, it's propose-SAB-changes day!

    I love SAB, here's my thoughts on improvements:
    1. 3/3 Silent Setup: attaching charges should not break stealth. In PvP, the target (player) should not know charges have been attached.
    2. Remove charge detonation from direct damage bombs (Annihilation and Fragmentation) and add it to delayed damage bombs (Time Bomb and Land Mines).
    3. Increase charge damage. Recommendation: Make charge damage increase exponentially rather than linearly as there are more charges on the target.
      Example: currently, every charge does exactly 100 damage. 1 charge = 100 damage, 5 charges = 500 damage. Instead, 1 charge = 100 damage, 2 charges = 125 damage each (250), 3 charges = 150 damage each (450), 4 charges = 200 damage (800), 5 charges = 275 damage (1375).
    4. Traps need tons of help. One of the reasons people don't bother going 61 SAB is that those last bunch of points are "wasted" on traps. Here are some suggestions:
    • Allow the SAB to target his own traps so he can dismiss them.
    • New Skill, a trap version of Carpet Bombing: maximum number of traps is increased by 5, and any traps set will expire after 90 seconds. Lasts 20 seconds, 60 second CD.
    • Change to Entangling Trap works: root the first 8 people to come into range who are not immune.
    • Change to Trap Extension (option #1): in addition to current functionality, when enabled, all traps become instant cast but share a separate 5 second CD.
    • Change to Trap Extension (option #2): Maximum number of traps is increased to 10. Every time a trap is set, all existing traps within 10 meters have their 60 second timer reset. Every time a trap is set, the rogue gains a stacking debuff. Each stack of the debuff increases the cast time of the next trap by 1 second. The debuff is cleared when all traps are gone, either by going off or expiring. When any trap is triggered, that enemy cannot trigger that SAB's traps within 5 meters for 3 seconds.

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