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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Upcoming Rogue Changes - 2.6 and Beyond.

  1. #556
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    These are pvp specific nerfs, no effect on pve, i'm fine with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  2. #557
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    Ravenous Instincts adds 10% healing crit for the pet and ranger. The only healing the pet and the ranger can do is Rejuvenate, Bloodied Blow and Spirit of the Wilderness.

    The problem here is that the healing from Bloodied Blow and Spirit of the Wilderness dont crit. This means that the 10% bonus healing crit is worthless. You could argue that the 10% healing crit could benefit other souls, but Ravenous Instincts is 48 points deep into the Ranger skill set, which means its not worth putting all them points in just to get the 10% healing crit if you are a healing rogue.

    To make the ranger benefit more from Ravenous Instincts is to give the skill a 5% healing bonus instead of 10% healing CRIT bonus. If you did this change you could make sure Bloodied Blow, Spirit of the Wilderness and Rejuvenate benefit from the 5% healing bonus.

    A simple change like this, which is not overpowered, would make Ravenous Instincts benefit the ranger more.

  3. #558
    Rift Chaser Zetsuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    One more change to add in...

    Physician:

    Emergency Response: The healing portion will now be 75% effective in PVP. This reduction is multiplicative with the global healing reduction.

    Reason for this change is twofold. Emergency Response has a shield along with the healing done unlike Fullness of Life or Essence Surge. However, the Rogue's HP in certain hybrids can approach that of a tank thus increasing the effectiveness of ER. Tank self only abilities like Touch of Life and Reprieve have 50% PVP reductions applied to them in addition to the global healing reduction. So, 75% is a nice middle ground between the two for a start.
    After all you listened to other classes
    people cant kill Physicans its thier fault being bad not playing right spec !!!!!

    next thing they will ask is increasing its Cooldown to 2min .. you will see .
    I keel Em Too Fast !

  4. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsuu View Post
    After all you listened to other classes
    people cant kill Physicans its thier fault being bad not playing right spec !!!!!

    next thing they will ask is increasing its Cooldown to 2min .. you will see .
    Tbh I do think we need to be careful. I know darn well if someone bothers to debilitate me I am dead...if they don't is it not their fault I lived?

    Now right now I don't think these changes are earth shattering BUT if the continue it does beg the following question. If we keep needing things because people can't be bothered to purge/cure/interrupt/silence/stun etc...why not just come right out and go all in on it and design Rift PvP around pew pew fast twitch dps? This slow decay of anything resembling actual thought and a strategy beyond maximizing burst dps is getting frustrating.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  5. #560
    Rift Chaser Zetsuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Tbh I do think we need to be careful. I know darn well if someone bothers to debilitate me I am dead...if they don't is it not their fault I lived?

    Now right now I don't think these changes are earth shattering BUT if the continue it does beg the following question. If we keep needing things because people can't be bothered to purge/cure/interrupt/silence/stun etc...why not just come right out and go all in on it and design Rift PvP around pew pew fast twitch dps? This slow decay of anything resembling actual thought and a strategy beyond maximizing burst dps is getting frustrating.
    Exactly , Devs should consider this point and keep in mind that in order to kill someone in pvp you actually have to make some effort and know your strenght points along with your enemy`s weakness , rather than getting macro from fourms and spam it then qq here cause you couldnt kill Physicans !!
    I keel Em Too Fast !

  6. #561
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Yeah. I remember back when the game launched. In a warfront if you did not mark healers and then focus them down, using purges and CC to help. You lost. He'll since battle groups were not game wide and there was faction based PvP even got to know the healers you should definitely mark and focus.

    People complained though so the nerfs started to come out. Then people said "okay if we are getting nerfed you need to deal with all the CC and purges" so those got nerfed either directly or through diminishing returned. It is a cycle where a nerf in one category necessitates a nerf somewhere else because you created an imbalance.

    Hell look at some of the complaints. They often say "I can't burn down a healer.". When you mention CC or purges they either go quiet or say CC is overpowered to. They basically just want to spam adps rotation mindlessly. Since when should you be able to just mindlessly pew pew down a healer especially if to stay alive they stop healing other people and can't do crap to you or anyone else?

    This is one of the things that makes MMO PvP, in games that rely on the trinity, different than the fps games and the like. You have to stop and think. It's not just enough to go balls to the wall, spraying round at a target or into a fatal funnel. IMO the more this dynamic gets diluted the less reason there is to chose a game like Rift for PvP over all the other games out there.
    Last edited by Galibier; 06-02-2014 at 02:21 AM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  7. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Yeah. I remember back when the game launched. In a warfront if you did not mark healers and then focus them down, using purges and CC to help. You lost. He'll since battle groups were not game wide and there was faction based PvP even got to know the healers you should definitely mark and focus.

    People complained though so the nerfs started to come out. Then people said "okay if we are getting nerfed you need to deal with all the CC and purges" so those got nerfed either directly or through diminishing returned. It is a cycle where a nerf in one category necessitates a nerf somewhere else because you created an imbalance.

    Hell look at some of the complaints. They often say "I can't burn down a healer.". When you mention CC or purges they either go quiet or say CC is overpowered to. They basically just want to spam adps rotation mindlessly. Since when should you be able to just mindlessly pew pew down a healer especially if to stay alive they stop healing other people and can't do crap to you or anyone else?

    This is one of the things that makes MMO PvP, in games that rely on the trinity, different than the fps games and the like. You have to stop and think. It's not just enough to go balls to the wall, spraying round at a target or into a fatal funnel. IMO the more this dynamic gets diluted the less reason there is to chose a game like Rift for PvP over all the other games out there.
    Yes, but most whiners complain about phys mostly. There's simply a lot of Rogue healers nowadas as this ST healing soul is obviously stronger in pvp than AE healing Liberator, on top of that you have all other buffs in the WF which create the false image of "invincible" Rogue healer. While in reality the biggest problem is cross-healing and unbalanced teams due to premades and ppl changing their specs inside.

    The worst thing is that Devs dont want to justify most of their changes and simply cater to whiners who can't even bring any evidence. Even if you post them a video of Phys being as easy to kill as Cleric healers with just 2 dps or 1 dps + support they will either ignore it or claim they dont want to play with specific specs just to counter it.

    On top of that Phys is still worse than Puri in PvE and we dont have any news about potential changes, even on the PTS.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  8. #563
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    Sadly Devs listen to the whiners once they spam fourms alot, even without valid proof that Physican needs a nerf .. so inorder to get your opposite class just because you cant kill him you need to spam fourms and send 5 gm tickets daily !!!

    i play around 4 hours daily and spend it all in WFs , players i see who knows exactly how to kill Physican and stop him are very few but they do stop him which proof that Physicans doesnt need a nerf , the others are pugs who run solo with bad specs for fun and fill chat with /yell qq about Physicans ...

    bottom line : Devs need to consider this fact befor applying any nerf !
    I keel Em Too Fast !

  9. #564
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    One day it'll finally be accepted you cannot balance for PvP and PvE simultaneously this holy grail, just like the one of legend doesn't exist.

    Given that you can (as many have posted) shut a physician down in PvP when you engage the grey matter between your ears; please stop prating around with this and concentrate on balancing the PvE aspects and the much vaunted changes promised for many a moon?
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  10. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    You can put 5 points into justicar for 10% endurance + 7.5% endurance from gifts. And if you consider Hybrids you can put the same 16 points in justicar to boost HP to tank like HP.. Also, 6 points in shaman gives endurance and 5% passive damage reduction.
    the amount of hitpoints you end up with still isn't close to what a phys gets with something like 10rs/5 bard, is even less so with a hybrid spec, plus bard gives a healing gift and riftstalker gives you ap/weapon damage, while shaman gives you nothing and justicar only gives you wisdom, not spell power.
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  11.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #566
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    Moar changes!

    Physician:

    Emergency Response: Can no longer crit. This puts it inline with the other abilities similar to it such as Essence Surge and Touch of Life. It also cannot be affected by any +healing abilities such as the Tactician gift or Palliative Care.

    Alternative Treatment: Now off Global Cooldown. Costs 10 energy. 10 second cooldown. It will still remove itself if the Rogue goes to 0 energy.

    I'm not completely sold that it should stay there until toggled off by the Rogue but this is the compromise that I agreed to.

  12. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Moar changes!

    Physician:

    Emergency Response: Can no longer crit. This puts it inline with the other abilities similar to it such as Essence Surge and Touch of Life. It also cannot be affected by any +healing abilities such as the Tactician gift or Palliative Care.

    Alternative Treatment: Now off Global Cooldown. Costs 10 energy. 10 second cooldown. It will still remove itself if the Rogue goes to 0 energy.

    I'm not completely sold that it should stay there until toggled off by the Rogue but this is the compromise that I agreed to.
    The ER change affect PvE pretty hard. I guess you are trying to force ppl to play rogues only with 61 specs, kinda disappointing, since other callings have much more viable hybrids or even broken OP ones like Pyrochon which no other support can replace and do as well.

    Do you have any plans to adress the issue of Physician dps in PvE?

    Any plans to change Life Insurance in to better PvE ability? increase it's duration to 5min and make it not work in PvP (for balance purposes) or just delete it and give us a copy of Puri's Flame of Life.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  13. #568
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Physician:
    Emergency Response: Can no longer crit. This puts it inline with the other abilities similar to it such as Essence Surge and Touch of Life. It also cannot be affected by any +healing abilities such as the Tactician gift or Palliative Care.
    Hope that doesn't affect the shield that comes with it, as it isn't really clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Alternative Treatment: Now off Global Cooldown. Costs 10 energy. 10 second cooldown. It will still remove itself if the Rogue goes to 0 energy.
    That "10 second cooldown" is a bad idea, cus your going to go to zero every time you actively use it.

    And that's what Adrenaline Shot is for, it doesn't line up with your zero energy but it's very close as it comes off cd.

    With what happening now that change would be ever damaging it PvP as you have a lot of drains, and if you are trying aoe through like a Mass Betrayal then your just going to die cus of your aoe healing toggle is removing itself and staying off until Mass Betrayal stops.
    Last edited by Burninalways; 06-05-2014 at 07:21 PM.
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  14. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Tbh I do think we need to be careful. I know darn well if someone bothers to debilitate me I am dead...if they don't is it not their fault I lived?

    Now right now I don't think these changes are earth shattering BUT if the continue it does beg the following question. If we keep needing things because people can't be bothered to purge/cure/interrupt/silence/stun etc...why not just come right out and go all in on it and design Rift PvP around pew pew fast twitch dps? This slow decay of anything resembling actual thought and a strategy beyond maximizing burst dps is getting frustrating.
    Don't think this dev will ever know the value of stuff we had to deal with healers in the past. For instance LW, Rift surge etc. ... probably can't even put a value on stuff we already have like spammable sigils in cabalist, neddra's torture, Arresting Pressence, and Last Grasp.. along with all the stacking debuffs.. stuns etc.

    Wonder what hot mess Reaver is going to end up being. Probably another gimped soul like Liberator in pvp.. lol with basic aoe and no real usable utility or cc. the problem with heal stacking is that some classes are entirely missing effective counters to them ...
    Last edited by Planetx; 06-05-2014 at 07:56 PM.

  15. #570
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    That "10 second cooldown" is a bad idea, cus your going to go to zero every time you actively use it.
    Uh... what? The cooldown only affects how often you can turn it on. You can still toggle it off anytime you want.

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