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Thread: Switching from tank primary to dps

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    Default Switching from tank primary to dps

    Hey all.

    I've been gearing primarily as a main tank for T1 raids, but due to an over abundance of tanks, I'm going to start gearing for dps. Currently, raid buffed I have roughly 2500/2600 AP and 125 CP. I've got 1 T1 armor piece (from a drop). For trash, I use 61BD and for bosses I'll use either 61BD or NB/Sin depending on the fight. If I get my rotations down properly I'll come in close to the top on damage at roughly 15k (only out done by other melee that out gear me).

    So my question is, I notice that most of the desolate gear is +crit. Should I avoid those pieces in favor of the +ap ones and should I learn another spec? We have a surplus of rogues that prefer to bard or mm already.

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    Plane Touched erct657's Avatar
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    For BD, you do want to favor AP, however, your main goal should be to get Crit Power as that is more useful up to a certain point. As you gear up, you'll get more and more AP organically from getting more Strength and Dexterity. Also, don't eschew a piece just because it has crit on it or it has AP and you are looking to get CP. If it's an upgrade, it's an upgrade regardless. So instead of using dungeon legs that have CP or AP on them, use the Desolate gear until you get a drop from Matriarch or Twins (preferably the ones from Matriarch). But, +crit purchased gear should be your last priority to purchase. So, IMO, wait to purchase the legs in particular last. I use the Desolate legs because there has been a relative dearth of rogue leg drops for my guild.

    Also, spec wise, you chose wisely learning BD and NB/Sin. You will be light years ahead of your guildmates on future fights who choose to only play MM, though you should also know how to play that, as well as Ranger. Consider adding a Sab spec for trash. For rogue dps in particular, we need to know how to play a lot of different specs. It's similar to mage dps, cleric healing, or warrior tanking. Multiple specs to choose from that are all relatively viable and useful in different situations. The more you know, the more useful you will be to your raid. Also, I really hope that you mean there is only 1 person in your raid who is the bard, because otherwise, you are leaving a lot of dps on the table, and even though from the sounds of it, you are in a relatively casual guild, having more than 1 bard is literally useless due to buff overwriting and poor relative dps even compared to a really poorly played MM (well, I guess spamming Swift Shot and Hasted Shot you may be lower than a Bard, but even then...)
    Last edited by erct657; 01-17-2014 at 08:07 AM.
    Erct - <Undaunted> - Wolfsbane.
    4/4 RoF, 5/5 MS, 2/3 TF, HK 10/11, 4/4 iGP HM, your MoM 4/9.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    For BD, you do want to favor AP, however, your main goal should be to get Crit Power as that is more useful up to a certain point. As you gear up, you'll get more and more AP organically from getting more Strength and Dexterity. Also, don't eschew a piece just because it has crit on it or it has AP and you are looking to get CP. If it's an upgrade, it's an upgrade regardless. So instead of using dungeon legs that have CP or AP on them, use the Desolate gear until you get a drop from Matriarch or Twins (preferably the ones from Matriarch). But, +crit purchased gear should be your last priority to purchase. So, IMO, wait to purchase the legs in particular last. I use the Desolate legs because there has been a relative dearth of rogue leg drops for my guild.

    Also, spec wise, you chose wisely learning BD and NB/Sin. You will be light years ahead of your guildmates on future fights who choose to only play MM, though you should also know how to play that, as well as Ranger. Consider adding a Sab spec for trash. For rogue dps in particular, we need to know how to play a lot of different specs. It's similar to mage dps, cleric healing, or warrior tanking. Multiple specs to choose from that are all relatively viable and useful in different situations. The more you know, the more useful you will be to your raid. Also, I really hope that you mean there is only 1 person in your raid who is the bard, because otherwise, you are leaving a lot of dps on the table, and even though from the sounds of it, you are in a relatively casual guild, having more than 1 bard is literally useless due to buff overwriting and poor relative dps even compared to a really poorly played MM (well, I guess spamming Swift Shot and Hasted Shot you may be lower than a Bard, but even then...)
    Thanks for the reply! I've got some T1 drop shoulders in my bags that I'll throw on then. I'll lose AP, but gain hit and crit.

    I'm the only rogue in my guild that melees, aside from the other tanks. I did try sab once and giggled at the insane aoe output. And yes, our 10 man raids typically consist of 3-4 rogues. Tank, me (DPs/off tank), bard and either mm, tact or ranger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    For BD, you do want to favor AP ...
    Crit Power is still king for Bladedancer.

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    Plane Touched erct657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    Crit Power is still king for Bladedancer.
    Which is why I said his main goal should be to get Crit Power. AP is still more useful in BD than other specs.
    Erct - <Undaunted> - Wolfsbane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    Which is why I said his main goal should be to get Crit Power. AP is still more useful in BD than other specs.
    If I'm not mistaken, ap and cp are both good for nb/sin as well, correct? That's the spec I typically use for bosses unless there's a need for occasional aoe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demonic240 View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, ap and cp are both good for nb/sin as well, correct? That's the spec I typically use for bosses unless there's a need for occasional aoe.
    Like all specs there are weights to each stat, AP, CP and PC. Current itemization favours CP and CP overall yields the best dividend for dps.

    In fact CP is a bit too good and PC not good enough in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    Which is why I said his main goal should be to get Crit Power. AP is still more useful in BD than other specs.
    You explicitly stated for BD, you do want to favor AP. There was no need to segregate Bladedancer from other Rogue dps builds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demonic240 View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, ap and cp are both good for nb/sin as well, correct? That's the spec I typically use for bosses unless there's a need for occasional aoe.
    Just to make it easier... Rule of thumb is CP>AP in a raid environment until 1024. 1024 CP is the softcap, and from there, you typically want AP then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    You explicitly stated for BD, you do want to favor AP. There was no need to segregate Bladedancer from other Rogue dps builds.
    I did explicitly state that. I guess I should have said that it favors it more than other rogue dps specs or benefits from higher AP more than other rogue dps specs, because of Fated Blades.
    Erct - <Undaunted> - Wolfsbane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reticularize View Post
    Just to make it easier... Rule of thumb is CP>AP in a raid environment until 1024. 1024 CP is the softcap, and from there, you typically want AP then.
    I'm not sure your soft cap value is correct. 1400 is the hard cap which means you'd want to shoot for 1194 if you have the +103 greater essence. A soft cap would indicate a point where further increases would be subject to diminishing returns which I did not think was the case with crit power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    I'm not sure your soft cap value is correct. 1400 is the hard cap which means you'd want to shoot for 1194 if you have the +103 greater essence. A soft cap would indicate a point where further increases would be subject to diminishing returns which I did not think was the case with crit power.
    It is not, although I guess one could make a case that "over cap" in some situations and "not capped" in others (e.g. charred proc downtime) could be considered diminishing returns...

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    I have 1400 crit power unbuffed with no food or procs, I do far more dps with crit power builds such as NB/SIN, vs builds that require more AP like Bladedancer. 15k dps is sorta moderate, so once you get better gear, you will move upwards of that easily. Your core should be all Crit Power lessers/greaters, then spread out the AP/CP amongst your gear sets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    I'm not sure your soft cap value is correct. 1400 is the hard cap which means you'd want to shoot for 1194 if you have the +103 greater essence. A soft cap would indicate a point where further increases would be subject to diminishing returns which I did not think was the case with crit power.
    Sorry, your right. The number I read was 1194. From what I've read, AP scales better after that. It doesn't need to be a softcap with the way CP works.
    \

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I have 1400 crit power unbuffed with no food or procs, I do far more dps with crit power builds such as NB/SIN, vs builds that require more AP like Bladedancer. 15k dps is sorta moderate, so once you get better gear, you will move upwards of that easily. Your core should be all Crit Power lessers/greaters, then spread out the AP/CP amongst your gear sets.
    Thanks for the advice. I already went through and replaced my level 56 essences with level 60 CP ones and started runeing more of my gear.

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