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Thread: Debilitating poison - completely useless

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    Rift Chaser Sleepthief's Avatar
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    Default Debilitating poison - completely useless

    Does anyone actually use this? I have been for awhile but it seems I've been nerfing myself. The only situation it's actually useful in seems to be healers who are already under 10% of their mana.

    The, I think they're mages, that can drain my energy bar 20 points at a time actually hurt. I've fought other rogues that use it and it doesn't seem to have much effect on me.

    I can't speak for warriors but I still get bursted down in 3 hits most of the time unless they're sword and board so I assume it doesn't mean much to them either.

    What's the point? The snare? Doesn't seem worth it.

    EDIT: I don't even have virulent poison on my bar, it's even more useless. How do people feel about malicious?
    Last edited by Sleepthief; 12-30-2013 at 09:18 AM.
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    Champion Fudily's Avatar
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    I use Debilitating in PvP, mostly because I don't like to pay for Insoles and I run Sin/RS which is more susceptible to kiting. It's also useful for getting people to use their Break Free on, allowing your Foul Play to be effective. It's also nice for fighting MM's and such that haven't figured out how to use all of their escape utility yet.

    If I were running 61Sin. I'd probably do Malicious/Debilitating/Leeching.
    Last edited by Fudily; 12-30-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara
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    Troll post? Debilitating is the best buff in the game for pvp, Passive snare, passive, dmg and power/mana/energy starvation per proc? It's what makes Sin useful in warfronts now.

    and leaching psn is useless, bad rogues will have it on. Debil/malicious/lethal psns are the ones you want for pvp, you can sub lethal for enfeeble if another rogue is applying lethal on your target. Other psns for 61 sin builds are garb. (pvp wise, pve has a different set of buffs/psns)

    if you know how to play sin (99% rogues don't have a clue what to do in pvp) Debilitating allows rogues to solo rank 90 healers, if not by the burst and using your stuns properly, then by draining them completely of mana in a short period of time then killing them.

    also works great on warriors who have power starved builds with their buffs, can easily shut down paragons and warlords and paratempest like doms can.

    also you can't face tank pvp with sins, they are not really a normal melee class, they are a hit run gank class. Your purpose is to shut down healers and protect your own healers.
    Last edited by DriftinARift; 12-30-2013 at 02:39 PM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant WhozDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepthief View Post
    Does anyone actually use this? I have been for awhile but it seems I've been nerfing myself. The only situation it's actually useful in seems to be healers who are already under 10% of their mana.

    The, I think they're mages, that can drain my energy bar 20 points at a time actually hurt. I've fought other rogues that use it and it doesn't seem to have much effect on me.

    I can't speak for warriors but I still get bursted down in 3 hits most of the time unless they're sword and board so I assume it doesn't mean much to them either.

    What's the point? The snare? Doesn't seem worth it.

    EDIT: I don't even have virulent poison on my bar, it's even more useless. How do people feel about malicious?
    DP is likely the best attack mod, also malicious is necessary due to energy management.

    DP is tricky with the drain of course, you really won't drain a healers mana bar alone, but over the course of 30-40 seconds, if they're actively using their heals, they bottom out, naturally, and then they can't regen, because at that point, your eating their mana faster then they can regen it.


    Though yes, most of the time you will die before you drain a quarter of a healers mana bar, even with them healing, unless you got a healer that knows how to heal melee, or a defiler.


    The thing about doms drains, that while infinitely more potent, they also have substantial cool downs attached to them. Yours, is passive, and has no downtime except death.
    Last edited by WhozDat; 12-30-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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    Champion Fudily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftinARift View Post
    and leaching psn is useless, bad rogues will have it on. Debil/malicious/lethal psns are the ones you want for pvp, you can sub lethal for enfeeble if another rogue is applying lethal on your target.
    I wouldn't call it useless. Leeching is more effective than Lethal and Enfeebling for Sin/RS.

    Even for 61Sin I wouldn't use Enfeebling over Leeching unless you're prepping for a 1v1, since in any other scenario you often won't be attacking the same target you're receiving damage from.

    The only situation Lethal would be better for you in is when you're not taking any damage and have multiple DPS'ers on your target, as 5% Crit in PvP really doesn't boost DPS much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I wish there was a way to record combat logs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Why can't sab have GTAE for its traps? This cast time is really lame, its 2014, make it so.

  6. #6
    Ascendant ilex011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepthief View Post
    Does anyone actually use this? I have been for awhile but it seems I've been nerfing myself. The only situation it's actually useful in seems to be healers who are already under 10% of their mana.

    The, I think they're mages, that can drain my energy bar 20 points at a time actually hurt.
    (snip)
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  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fudily View Post
    I wouldn't call it useless. Leeching is more effective than Lethal and Enfeebling for Sin/RS.

    Even for 61Sin I wouldn't use Enfeebling over Leeching unless you're prepping for a 1v1, since in any other scenario you often won't be attacking the same target you're receiving damage from.

    The only situation Lethal would be better for you in is when you're not taking any damage and have multiple DPS'ers on your target, as 5% Crit in PvP really doesn't boost DPS much.

    Leaching is absolutely terrible for Sin pvp. not even sin/rs or any other variants will use it over the other psn. I know you mostly pve more then pvp.

    But no one, I mean no top tier pvp rogue that knows how to play sin will ever use leaching over deb/malicious/lethal or enfeb psn.

    Before the debilitating buff, the good rogues who knew how to play sin before they got buffed ran

    Enfeebling Poison
    Malicious Poison
    Lethal Poison

    as their primary psns, no one other then bad rogues used anything else. Then again before rogues got ez mode sin buffs, there were no good sins other then few that the regular vets that screamo ran with.

    You can't even argue to use leaching over anything else, it's just that terrible in pvp. Maybe for a cute 1v1 spec if you think those tiny heals you receive will mater over using the good psns. Lethal also applies to the entire raid in warfronts, or your party in 5v5s, the increase benefits everyone.

    the way pvp was pre sl, leaching was decent, the way sl pvp works, it's terrible.
    Last edited by DriftinARift; 12-30-2013 at 05:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Champion Fudily's Avatar
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    It's as simple as applying math and logic.
    Leeching does about 160 HPS for me, and most of the time I'm fighting multiple enemies with my main focus being on their healer. So in order for Enfeebling to take priority, that healer or other target would need to be doing 1600+ DPS to me. This isn't going to happen often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I wish there was a way to record combat logs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Why can't sab have GTAE for its traps? This cast time is really lame, its 2014, make it so.

  9. #9
    Ascendant WhozDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftinARift View Post
    Leaching is absolutely terrible for Sin pvp. not even sin/rs or any other variants will use it over the other psn. I know you mostly pve more then pvp.

    But no one, I mean no top tier pvp rogue that knows how to play sin will ever use leaching over deb/malicious/lethal or enfeb psn.

    Before the debilitating buff, the good rogues who knew how to play sin before they got buffed ran

    Enfeebling Poison
    Malicious Poison
    Lethal Poison

    as their primary psns, no one other then bad rogues used anything else. Then again before rogues got ez mode sin buffs, there were no good sins other then few that the regular vets that screamo ran with.

    You can't even argue to use leaching over anything else, it's just that terrible in pvp. Maybe for a cute 1v1 spec if you think those tiny heals you receive will mater over using the good psns. Lethal also applies to the entire raid in warfronts, or your party in 5v5s, the increase benefits everyone.

    the way pvp was pre sl, leaching was decent, the way sl pvp works, it's terrible.
    Virulent is a dps gain compared to lethal.

    However leeching+enfeebling is the choice for dueling.

    Enfeebling is worthless if your running DP, which means high chances of being on a healer, as fud said.

    Sins who "Knew" how to play, rotated their poisons, to suit their needs, at any specific time. Saying a specific set of poisons was the "Best" is folly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fudily View Post
    It's as simple as applying math and logic.
    Leeching does about 160 HPS for me, and most of the time I'm fighting multiple enemies with my main focus being on their healer. So in order for Enfeebling to take priority, that healer or other target would need to be doing 1600+ DPS to me. This isn't going to happen often.
    Pretty much any dps build with good gear and competent player behind it will pull 1.6k or above on you.
    Last edited by WhozDat; 12-30-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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  10. #10
    Champion Fudily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhozDat View Post
    Pretty much any dps build with good gear and competent player behind it will pull 1.6k or above on you.
    I wish I could say this is a usual occurrence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I wish there was a way to record combat logs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Why can't sab have GTAE for its traps? This cast time is really lame, its 2014, make it so.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    It's worth noting that any intelligent assassin will spend a fair chunk of time attacking healers (which has the added benefit of draining their mana via Debilitating Poison). Enfeebling Poison will not do anything for your survivability while attacking a healer, while Leeching Poison will.

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    Ascendant WhozDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fudily View Post
    I wish I could say this is a usual occurrence.
    Me too my friend....me too
    The only rogue troll who does better with his warrior and plays his warrior more then his rogue.

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    Rift Master Sezex's Avatar
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    I agree. It should remove 1 buff every time it procs.....
    Last edited by Sezex; 12-31-2013 at 01:22 AM.

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