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Thread: New Rift player LF pvp rogue spec

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    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    Default New Rift player LF pvp rogue spec

    Hey everyone. My friends and I have just started Rift for pvp and as a result I'm looking for rogue advice. I was wondering what the best spec is for dps output. The group we're running now is mage, warrior, rogue, 2x clerics. I'm level 32 right now but higher level specs would be helpful too. Thanks for any help.

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    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    Warrior id have in warlord/champ i think was the beasty solo build that dumps dmg pre 60.
    mage id try dom though not sure how good it is at lower levels so might be better off in pyro or harb. Clerics 1 needs to heal if not 2. Sent and prui was pretty funny in pvp on my lowbie cleric and so was inq heavy dmg output since nobody cleanses in low level wfs.

    Rogue i liked nb hybrids and mm was good once you can get 44 points in mm for purge. Sin still looks realy solid in the low level brackets so you might give it a shot. Hard to give kuch feedback though since your pvping with 5 people you would want every in specs that work well side by side. W/O knowing what the rest of your group is doing its hard to give advice on what spec would help your group the most.

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    Ascendant WhozDat's Avatar
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    MM is your overall most effective spec. You have a purge, an interrupt/silence, moderate damage, high mobility, a Knock-back and an uncleansable root and unparalleled mobility.

    Assassin is your best bet for higher sustained damage and healer pressure. Debilitating poison and Serpent strike are your keys to success, poison malice is your damage.

    NB is your "Big Burst" class. Touch of Darkness+Scourge of Darkness+Living Flame will cause people to melt around you if you hit them in succession.

    As a rogue, all of your builds will usually, if not always, be 61, hybrids in pvp are terrible at the moment.
    Last edited by WhozDat; 12-23-2013 at 01:18 PM.
    The only rogue troll who does better with his warrior and plays his warrior more then his rogue.

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    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    thanks!

    Right now i'm running the mm build, although I have heard ranger offers more damage. the group we're running is usually dps warrior, dps rogue (me), 1 dps mage, 1 heal mage and 1 cleric.

    Once we level up more it will be: dps warrior, dps rogue, mage for control and 2 clerics

    Is mm suitable to synergise with this team build?

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    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aveleys View Post
    Once we level up more it will be: dps warrior, dps rogue, mage for control and 2 clerics

    Is mm suitable to synergise with this team build?
    Yea its a pretty cookie cutter set up, once you play it a few times you will figure out what set up you need but MM is a simple but effective set up.

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    If you run only in small group you should switch to some melee rogue dps as MM doesnt do much , tho his utility can be useful but the archers in general offer more in a bigger groups where you can focus one target from high range and kill it before he get close. If you dont have enough ranged dmg focus your range wont change anything as there's plenty of blinks and close gap mechanics in the game, so you will find yourself having to face lot's of melees in close combat.

    Even if you can sometimes kite you have to keep in mind that various melee spec have some ranged attacks and finishers so with certain buffs like malice poision their ranged dps can be enough to finish you while you try to kite. Take Assassin for example, he gets a close gap mechanism on 8sec cooldown with 3-30 meter range. It also roots for 2sec and does dmg in the same time, so gl kitting.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

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    Ascendant WhozDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    If you run only in small group you should switch to some melee rogue dps as MM doesnt do much , tho his utility can be useful but the archers in general offer more in a bigger groups where you can focus one target from high range and kill it before he get close. If you dont have enough ranged dmg focus your range wont change anything as there's plenty of blinks and close gap mechanics in the game, so you will find yourself having to face lot's of melees in close combat.

    Even if you can sometimes kite you have to keep in mind that various melee spec have some ranged attacks and finishers so with certain buffs like malice poision their ranged dps can be enough to finish you while you try to kite. Take Assassin for example, he gets a close gap mechanism on 8sec cooldown with 3-30 meter range. It also roots for 2sec and does dmg in the same time, so gl kitting.
    You really should disregard the above, in reality.

    MM is as much damage as a sin in most cases where it matters. MM Is ranged, does comparable damage, and is no where near as energy starved and buff reliant as a sin, to compound this, you are not only effective for your damage.

    As a rogue, I generally like to say it this way, in any organized group, you are the wild card. It is your job to adapt to the situation. If your group is getting hammered hard, eradicate works wonders on enemy dps (It neuters sins, riftblades, harms NBs severly, hurts other MMs pretty good) all while bringing more 1-2s burst dps then a sin, more reliably, and more often.

    However a good sins mana drain, if you can keep that buff up, is almost a necessity against dual healer lineups, as a defiler+puri combo can, and usually do, negate 5-6 dps, with ease, for minutes at a time.

    Ranger is terrible, MM does everything it does, including more damage, better, with more mobility and utility.
    The only rogue troll who does better with his warrior and plays his warrior more then his rogue.

    Kaesola@Deepwood (Formerly Kaesoia/Kaesola@Wolfsbane); Miafereen@Wolfsbane (Formerly Malesh@Laethys)

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Ah, the usual recommend MM for noob rogues eh !
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Plane Touched erct657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Ah, the usual recommend MM for noob rogues eh !
    The problem with Sin is no native interrupt and no purge. Both of which are incredibly useful in PUG warfronts. If I had a true pvp spec for Sin, it'd probably look like this, right, mainly so I could get an interrupt? While you may be doing 5s, everyone else and their moms are doing PUG warfronts. Sin, at least as I find it, is more of an annoyance in a PUG warfront to the opposing team than a true threat. Oh look, you killed someone exiting spawn. Now you're useless for up to 2 minutes waiting for Slip Away to come off CD, assuming you weren't able to spawn. Whereas with MM, you have up to 100% uptime on usefulness if you are alive and if I had a true pvp spec for MM, it'd probably look like this, right? Feel free to correct me because I am pretty noobish when it comes to PVP readiness (I PVP in my PVE specs and gear, yay bolstering! ) but I still tend to do pretty well.

    Now, I'm only rank 62, and I know that you're rank 90 blah blah blah, but as he is a NEW Rift player looking for a pvp spec, MM is perfectly fine but if you want to be all roguey and such, Assassin, NB, or BD are probably the way to go. Ranger, Riftstalker (main soul, not subsoul)=teh suck. Bard and Tactician are useful for when healers are negligent, which with 2 clerics it shouldn't be. Also, Saboteur is really good in certain situations.
    Last edited by erct657; 12-26-2013 at 08:20 AM.
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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    The problem with Sin is no native interrupt and no purge. Both of which are incredibly useful in PUG warfronts. If I had a true pvp spec for Sin, it'd probably look like this, right, mainly so I could get an interrupt? While you may be doing 5s, everyone else and their moms are doing PUG warfronts. Sin, at least as I find it, is more of an annoyance in a PUG warfront to the opposing team than a true threat. Oh look, you killed someone exiting spawn. Now you're useless for up to 2 minutes waiting for Slip Away to come off CD, assuming you weren't able to spawn. Whereas with MM, you have up to 100% uptime on usefulness if you are alive and if I had a true pvp spec for MM, it'd probably look like this, right? Feel free to correct me because I am pretty noobish when it comes to PVP readiness (I PVP in my PVE specs and gear, yay bolstering! ) but I still tend to do pretty well.

    Now, I'm only rank 62, and I know that you're rank 90 blah blah blah, but as he is a NEW Rift player looking for a pvp spec, MM is perfectly fine but if you want to be all roguey and such, Assassin, NB, or BD are probably the way to go. Ranger, Riftstalker (main soul, not subsoul)=teh suck. Bard and Tactician are useful for when healers are negligent, which with 2 clerics it shouldn't be. Also, Saboteur is really good in certain situations.
    Cant really disagree with any of this, but rogues tend to get stuck in the MM build, which actually yields lesser results when you're rank 90, Sins draining healers and keeping them on the defensive is how a good rogue will pressure a team. Put a rank 90 Nightblade on a healer bursting them, while draining them, you'll see the best healers run for the hills, thats how a strong rogue puts a team on the defensive. Most good healers have Kalerts and will just reapply their buffs once removed in pvp, and the MM damage in pvp at rank 90 is far below that of the melee counterparts. Its fine if a new rogue wants to start off with MM, but if they keep themselves pigeon holed in that mediocre damage build for the rest of their careers. They're not helping themselves or their team much. I have literally swung games in my teams favor by running bladedancer and running around 2-3 shotting opponents, sometimes healers cant even keep up.

    Pve bolstered opponents are my favorite target, their damage output is pathetic, their health pool laughable.
    Last edited by Gunzip; 12-26-2013 at 08:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    I'm glad to see this thread turned into a nice discussion. so far i'm finding mm offers nice synergy with a pyro mage and dps warrior, providing some ranged control with seems to be more important against good players then pure dps.

    Do you guys think rogues are worth it in a proper pvp group at end game? or does tempest spec warrior and mages dps become more important?

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    Ascendant WhozDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aveleys View Post
    I'm glad to see this thread turned into a nice discussion. so far i'm finding mm offers nice synergy with a pyro mage and dps warrior, providing some ranged control with seems to be more important against good players then pure dps.

    Do you guys think rogues are worth it in a proper pvp group at end game? or does tempest spec warrior and mages dps become more important?

    Rogues are almost a necessity in some form or another in 60 pvp because they perform so many variable roles that it's almost stupid not to bring one. Despite the fact that people think "MM" is for noobs, it really isn't. The difference between a good MM and a bad MM, is generally found in this mindset, as people who hold MM is for noobs, are normally the ones who only care about the kills and the scoreboards, and lack the ability and/or mindset to be a successful MM.

    MM and Sin are very unique to the rogue class, and very potent, and very powerful. As you get into different 5v5 scenarios, you'll need to decide, normally, between these two classes, as they're your best classes by a very large margin.

    Nothing matches sins mana drain currently, and allows your dom, if you have one, to focus more on controlling their dps through squirrels, and the pressure provided will exponentially expedite the breakdown of an enemy team, sin is also uniquely potent against Defilers, as with poison malice up, they can actually dps through the defilers Ugly ability, and can kill them if no one else is dpsing (As 2-3 poisons in malice and large hits, hit for more then ugly heals, even counting the damage redux, all the while, depleting their mana faster then it can be regened. )

    Other mentions worth, well mentioning, are NB and Tactman;

    NB has one of the most potent bursts in the game, even if it's very unreliable. Spec depending, I can pull 34-36k damage in 6 seconds in 12 bd, or 44kish in dps specing, though the burst period is very very fragile and vulnerable to a person kiting, teleporting, or you getting CC'd.

    Tacman serves as a psuedo mana drain; the amount of aoe damage it's capable of, while not necessarily high, is so sustained, that it will drag solo healers and even duo healers in 5-10 man groups, down the toilet faster then any other spec we have currently.
    Last edited by WhozDat; 12-26-2013 at 05:48 PM.
    The only rogue troll who does better with his warrior and plays his warrior more then his rogue.

    Kaesola@Deepwood (Formerly Kaesoia/Kaesola@Wolfsbane); Miafereen@Wolfsbane (Formerly Malesh@Laethys)

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