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Thread: Fix sab

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Fix sab

    change sab functionality to Apply Charges with combo point generating abilities and finishers to detonate

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Nynja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quackfosh1 View Post
    change sab functionality to Apply Charges with combo point generating abilities and finishers to detonate
    quite OP isn't it?
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  3. #3
    Plane Touched erct657's Avatar
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    That's how it is right now...

    The 4 charges are the only combo point generating abilities.

    Annihilation bomb, Detonate, and Fragmentation Bomb are all "finishers" in the sense they get rid of the 1-5 combo points and explode any charge on the mob.

    This guy makes very confusing and intentionally misleading posts.
    Last edited by erct657; 12-16-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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  4. #4
    Telaran
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    No like this
    Quick shot damage plus sab charge shadowfire 2 combo pts 2 charges 5 pts finisher = detonate

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Nynja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    That's how it is right now...

    The 4 charges are the only combo point generating abilities.

    Annihilation bomb, Detonate, and Fragmentation Bomb are all "finishers" in the sense they get rid of the 1-5 combo points and explode any charge on the mob.

    This guy makes very confusing and intentionally misleading posts.
    he intended to give all cp abilties the effect to apply charges for hybrids f.e. BD builders + spike charge
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    What a horrid idea, but at least you're sorta trying!
    Even free cost too much now

  7. #7
    Plane Touched erct657's Avatar
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    So you want to apply 1 charge, build up the other 4 combo points in some other manner, and then use Detonate and get the damage of 5 charges.

    I get that you are trying to make Sab more than a 1 button spam. Unfortunately, I don't think this is the way to go. Creative, but incredibly OP.
    Erct - <Undaunted> - Wolfsbane.
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  8. #8
    Telaran
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    for functionalities sake they can retune sab to make charges applied via stances sab has been underpowered for a very long time, 1 of the few that doesnt really sync make better hybrids
    Last edited by Quackfosh1; 12-16-2013 at 05:01 PM.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Nynja's Avatar
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    join date dez 2013,...

    where is sab underpowered for a long time..? its the best AOE soul (i say THE best) ingame
    Last edited by Nynja; 12-16-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nynja View Post
    join date dez 2013,...

    where is sab underpowered for a long time..? its the best AOE soul (i say THE best) ingame
    ST, tuning it to a modifier would promote global viability and hybrids

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    lol most OP 0 point soul by a lightyear. Now warriors are gonna quote this and say "omg rogues are ridiculous qq".

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Sab is also the highest ST damage ranged AoE soul. So no.

  13. #13
    Ascendant
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    Sab needs some work, this is not the work it needs.

    Way to OP. This would be worse than the beta sab where you could effectively detonate 10 crits at once and do 75% of most people's health in one shot if the first charge crit.

    Areas where sab needs help:

    Better synergy with some of the other souls.

    A way to incentivize rotations beyond 1 button macro

    Traps still suck

    61 sab is pointless for the most part

    Single target is worse than it should be. But as Grinnz pointed out that has to be carefully managed to avoid making the soul to much of a "do it all" dps spec.
    Last edited by Khelendross; 12-17-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    I love my Sab, wanted to comment on these ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    Areas where sab needs help:

    Better synergy with some of the other souls.
    The biggest problem with meaningful synergy between souls is that Sab's attacks are so specialized. Traps and Bombs don't really follow the traditional CP-Finisher model that most Rogue attacks do, and the Sab charge-detonate model doesn't make sense with normal attacks. I mean, what are you going to do, load charges then detonate them with Final Blow? Build CP with Swift Shot then use Detonate to cause an explosion? You can's do the former, which makes sense; you can do the latter, but you don't get much damage from the finisher by itself.

    In terms of other souls supporting a Sab build, I think it could be improved but isn't horrible. I believe Sab attacks proc supporting skills like Assassin poisons, NB blades, and MM munitions, no?

    My only wish for this side of synergy would be to expand the scope of Silent Setup. I'd like it to also reflect a chance to stay in Stealth while applying charges, and ideally reflect the chance that other players have notice of charges during PvP.

    On the flip size, I agree completely. I wouldn't expect to see any non-Sab-based build putting points into Sab for synergy, although if a PvPer had a free slot they might like 0-point Sab for adhesive bomb and charge.

    The problem I see in addressing this side of synergy is that Saboteur has three distinct areas of attacks. So it's not practical to decide "I want to take Sab bombs but not charges or traps." You have to put too many points into irrelevant skills to get the really useful bomb skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    A way to incentivize rotations beyond 1 button macro
    How about... improved DPS and flexibility?

    I agree that the 1-button macro DPS is temptingly good, but I definitely get better dps and waaaaaay more flexibility with a full set of buttons and only a couple small macros.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    Traps still suck
    I wouldn't say they suck outright.

    When I'm leveling, traps are useful. Set Land Mines and something like Booby Trap and I can take out 20% of the enemy's HP before they even get to me.

    In dungeons & raids, the biggest suck factor is that a trap presumes that you have the ability to control where enemies will go, and that's the Tank's role.

    In PvP, they're pretty much useless except for land mines at a flag or choke point... and they are visible so they can be avoided.

    How about carpet trapping on CD that lets us lay down 5 traps / land mines and keep them set twice as long?

    How about leaving Entangling Trap in place for 60 seconds or until it traps 8 people, rather than trapping up to 8 people the first time it's triggered (and then going away)?

    How about getting rid of the cast time for all traps, or at least with Trap Extension?

    How about this complete revision of Trap Extension: There is no limit to the maximum number of traps, and Trap cast times are instant. Every time you lay a trap, you have a 30-second debuff "Trap Complexity" that increases the cast time of your next trap by 1 second, and resets the 60-second timer of all traps within 30 meters of the trap you just set get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    61 sab is pointless for the most part
    Strongly agree, I don't go above 54 points. The top two root skills (Immolation Trap and Molotov Cocktail) aren't worth the points, especially since it usually means spending more points in the more-useless trap skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    Single target is worse than it should be. But as Grinnz pointed out that has to be carefully managed to avoid making the soul to much of a "do it all" dps spec.
    I'm happy with my ST damage. But when I compare Sab to other AoE DPS souls like Champion, I think the dropoff from AoE to ST is too severe. I agree you need to manage this carefully, and I'd rather have things the way they are than make tweaks that could also harm AoE DPS.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    well first I still don't get the one button sab crying. does it do decently? Yes it does. BUT you do far more damage if you do NOT do 1 button spam. If a one button sab is beating your champion say, there is a problem with the person playing your champion not the 1 button sabo. Not trying to sound like a jerk but if a person playing sab is just doing 1 button sabo they are imo "settling" for lower performance.

    As for the idea of making the hybrid work, the combo points and charges and actually separate. You can actually atm blow your combo points BUT keeps your charges on the target. This used to be what made sabdancer work (3 combo points via charge...deadly strike...2 combo point via charge...detonate) BUT for some reason using deadly strike to buff non-blade dancer damage was seen as evil so they got rid of it :-(
    Last edited by Galibier; 12-20-2013 at 07:10 AM.

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