Closed Thread
Page 30 of 51 FirstFirst ... 20 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 40 ... LastLast
Results 436 to 450 of 760
Like Tree83Likes

  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Upcoming Rogue Changes

  1. #436
    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    913

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    didnt ahov who is in the best guild in the game say that they are all neck and neck like i said with the slight edge to tempest? i dont go by my play i go by the best and for what i have read temp is slightly ahead of INQ and on par .
    He said they should be neck and neck but temp wl inq and ranger in dps ranks. Ahov preches the gosspil and good news vedetta peeps your now the best guild in the world because a clueless warrior said so. So yea keep reading about how to dps what what specs to use instead of playing them and seeing for yourself. I wasnt aware reading forum post made you an expert on class and soul balances. Please though keep reading post and dropping these jewels for us. Then again ive raided with you so maybe reading about soul balance vs using your own exp is the best way to go.

  2. #437
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,070

    Default

    I have to agree with Ahov, for 3 years, the Rift community has relegated purge duty to rogues in Marksman, this has to change, all other callings have the ability to purge. Rogues in general need to learn their stronger dps builds and start taking advantage of them. Too many cases rogues are being told to run Marksman, and they get locked into the mentality that Marksman is actually a good raid dps soul, which it obviously is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  3. #438
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7,120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    Let's go to a possible raid comp that is not unlikely.
    4 warriors, 8 rogues, 4 mages, 4 clerics.

    If you are just beginning progression, at least IMO, you would have 1 warrior tank, 1 rogue tank, 1 bard, and 1 archon. So now you are down to 3 warriors, 6 rogues, and 3 mages. Of the 4 clerics, 3 will be healers, 1 defiler, 1 purifier, and 1 warden. They will likely be using either 1 or 2 chloros as well. So down to 1 or 2 mages and 1 cleric. If instead of a rogue tank or warrior tank, they used a cleric tank, then you are down to 0 clerics. I highly suspect that there will be a couple marksman in this raid. So yes, you can do that chloro purge or necro or you could have your defiler add Inq as an offspec. The point of my response was that if you nerf one of the signature abilities of a soul, you need to give it more than a paltry 2% dps increase. Ooh, MM has Interrupt+Silence, because that's useful on nothing except the trash between the ultimate and penultimate bosses of the T1 raids. Ooh, MM has greater mobility, that's useful because mechanics are so difficult to get out of. Ooh, MM has a 1s GCD purge, and then a 7s CD. Which is useful on fights like Goloch where you have to purge x number of stacks within x number of seconds. Or a fight like Kyzan where that 7s debuff is longer than the time on the buff that needs 5 stacks purged off. Though that rogue heavy guild wouldn't have any issues because 2-3 rogues in each group, assuming they are running 2 10 mans, would be running MM. Obviously, I'm talking pure PVE, so the point about uncleansable damage is completely pointless.

    Ranger pet survival is not the issue with Ranger. The pet dies to virtually nothing except those adds before Proteus. The issue with Ranger is that it is lower dps than Inquisitor, has a pet, has worse utility, has virtually no good AoE, and has worse target swaps because of said pet. If the pet was a ranged pet like what mages have, target swaps would be less of an issue but we'd still have all the other issues.

    Nice save on your Sicaron example. with the Russian judge giving 1/10.
    Sorry, you still have Beastmaster as a potential purger along with your Chloromancers and cleric tank. It's up to you to determine what the smallest dps loss is for your guild, and it's most likely running one BM and/or converting your chloros to a purge spec, and/or your cleric tank running a purge variant.

    With an 8 rogue group none of them should be Marksman following the changes to Eradicate. But good job trying to pidegonhole yourself and then complain about it.
    Last edited by Ahov; 01-15-2014 at 01:54 PM.

  4. #439
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    10,817

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    or Wave of Renewal being a 1-way wave.
    I don't think the change to Eradicate is a bad thing. But I wouldn't even notice this change.

  5. #440
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,418

    Default

    Why are these quality of life changes taking so long to hit the pts let alone live?? This is ridiculous. I'm guessing at this rate trion is targeting 3.0 to bump rogues range dps up to other classes. I highly doubt tempest will get nerfed so why hasn't vladd acknowledged rogues range dps is way behind?? This is absurd.

  6. #441
    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    913

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    Why are these quality of life changes taking so long to hit the pts let alone live?? This is ridiculous. I'm guessing at this rate trion is targeting 3.0 to bump rogues range dps up to other classes. I highly doubt tempest will get nerfed so why hasn't vladd acknowledged rogues range dps is way behind?? This is absurd.
    Some of them are hitting pts on its next patch vlad said wasnt there as of last night.. But yea agree on all that.

  7. #442
    Plane Touched erct657's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Sorry, you still have Beastmaster as a potential purger along with your Chloromancers and cleric tank. It's up to you to determine what the smallest dps loss is for your guild, and it's most likely running one BM and/or converting your chloros to a purge spec, and/or your cleric tank running a purge variant.

    With an 8 rogue group none of them should be Marksman following the changes to Eradicate. But good job trying to pidegonhole yourself and then complain about it.
    Let's count the purges on Goloch, just for my benefit and the other people who possibly agree with me's benefit. Cleric Tank, 4 buffs. Chloromancers, 2 buffs within the time it takes on Goloch, Beastmaster, 10 buffs within the time it takes on Goloch, assuming their spamming Fierce Strike from as soon as the buff shows up. That's 17 stacks total. So if you need to do more than 17 stacks, which should never happen, then you need an additional purger. With the MM change, you can do 4 buffs, the same amount as a cleric tank. So with that, MM does not need to be run on Goloch. Kyzan, different story. MM will certainly be ran on that fight. Obviously, it won't be 8 rogues in the group, even though it could be.

    So, yes, MM is weak and for weak players and should not be used. It does not change the fact that unfortunately, for many people, it will still be the spec of choice for purges and raiding in general.

    @Grinnz: The change is not a bad thing. The compensation for the change is what is lacking. It should be more than 2% because the change brings it closer, in PVE utility wise, to Inquisitor.
    Erct - <Undaunted> - Wolfsbane.
    4/4 RoF, 5/5 MS, 2/3 TF, HK 10/11, 4/4 iGP HM, your MoM 4/9.

  8. #443
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    10,817

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    @Grinnz: The change is not a bad thing. The compensation for the change is what is lacking. It should be more than 2% because the change brings it closer, in PVE utility wise, to Inquisitor.
    I agree completely, I don't think this is the last of the changes to Marksman or Ranger.

  9. #444
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    *snip stuff*
    But good job trying to pidegonhole ........
    Yet you would pidgeonhole the Marksman to PvP....... good show Ahov. That would settle the poor coding and everything at once for folks wouldn't it.

    Gets around the other discussion about coding PvP vs PvE aspects of the changes (which you took out of my initial post) and the Marksman changes all at once...... wtg.

    BTW, I use other specs on raids, and occasional MM when asked.

  10. #445
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I honestly have no idea why anyone listens to Ahov. He has aptly demonstrated in this discussion that he is clueless about class balance in general and rogues in particular, top guild in the world notwithstanding.

    Look at the idiotic things he's said just in the last couple pages. Tempest should be the best ranged ST soul, even though it also has amazing aoe, no penalty for target switching, and doesn't have to deal with derptastic pet AI? Really? And MM should be purely a PvP soul?

    Take Kyzan as an example. Ranger is bad because the pet can get hit with necrotic expansion, and your options for ordering the pet to move are 1) go to my target, 2) stay right where you are, and 3) come stand on me. There's really only room for one (maybe two, if you overgear the encounter) melee dps. That means your rogues are at range. Since ranger is terrible for the fight thanks to the pet and sab is even lower ST than MM, guess what spec the rogues have to run. That fight alone is justification for MM being competitive in PvE, even if the rogues aren't responsible for purging the boss. I'm still waiting for evidence supporting the idea that it should be PvP-only.

  11. #446
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7,120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thasaidon View Post
    I honestly have no idea why anyone listens to Ahov. He has aptly demonstrated in this discussion that he is clueless about class balance in general and rogues in particular, top guild in the world notwithstanding.

    Look at the idiotic things he's said just in the last couple pages. Tempest should be the best ranged ST soul, even though it also has amazing aoe, no penalty for target switching, and doesn't have to deal with derptastic pet AI? Really? And MM should be purely a PvP soul?

    Take Kyzan as an example. Ranger is bad because the pet can get hit with necrotic expansion, and your options for ordering the pet to move are 1) go to my target, 2) stay right where you are, and 3) come stand on me. There's really only room for one (maybe two, if you overgear the encounter) melee dps. That means your rogues are at range. Since ranger is terrible for the fight thanks to the pet and sab is even lower ST than MM, guess what spec the rogues have to run. That fight alone is justification for MM being competitive in PvE, even if the rogues aren't responsible for purging the boss. I'm still waiting for evidence supporting the idea that it should be PvP-only.
    Your reading comprehension needs some work. I never said Tempest should be the best ranged soul; I was listing how things currently are. That is, Tempest is the top ranged soul right now...

    As for your silly Kyzan example, I've also stated the pet should be immunue to more mechanics.

    But yes, if I actually believed what you think I believe, that would be pretty stupid!

  12. #447
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    7,120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaszar View Post
    Yet you would pidgeonhole the Marksman to PvP....... good show Ahov. That would settle the poor coding and everything at once for folks wouldn't it.

    Gets around the other discussion about coding PvP vs PvE aspects of the changes (which you took out of my initial post) and the Marksman changes all at once...... wtg.

    BTW, I use other specs on raids, and occasional MM when asked.
    Not at all; marksman maintains the mobility advantage and could potentially be used for a boss-kiting mechanic in a future raid. It doesn't need to be used only in places where you want a purge.

    As for pvp, there are other options with more damage potential; I just prefer the still-better utility of Marksman, even with an Eradicate nerf.

  13.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #448
    Rift Team
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spowers454 View Post
    Some of them are hitting pts on its next patch vlad said wasnt there as of last night.. But yea agree on all that.
    Everything that I promised would be in the next update of PTS went up on Monday.

  14. #449
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6,727

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spowers454 View Post
    He said they should be neck and neck but temp wl inq and ranger in dps ranks. Ahov preches the gosspil and good news vedetta peeps your now the best guild in the world because a clueless warrior said so. So yea keep reading about how to dps what what specs to use instead of playing them and seeing for yourself. I wasnt aware reading forum post made you an expert on class and soul balances. Please though keep reading post and dropping these jewels for us. Then again ive raided with you so maybe reading about soul balance vs using your own exp is the best way to go.
    hah i thought he was in addiction sorry i dont keep up with ahovs guild life. i read testing threads all the time. i play tempest and put up very good numbers but i dont use my experience because im 10k ahead of the rogues in my guild on some fights because they use MM and dont know rotations, im in a very casual guild because i cant commit to a full raid schedule but i can play at any level. i go by the best of the best which i assumed was addiction and from what ive read temp and WL are very close and inq is slightly behind with ranger way behind.

    again u seem very butt hurt over me wanting balance. never once have i said leave things how they are or dont buff rogues. i just value pvp balance as much as pve and tried making some normal suggestions hoping some rogues would have some un bias common sense approaches. i made a mistake

    anyways enough of this, i hate when people do this in the warrior forums, i made some suggestions take them for what they are worth. if vladd buffs mm in pvp and buffs sin or nb in any way im sure you will be happy. personally i hate what they did to temp but thats just me
    Last edited by dday; 01-15-2014 at 05:36 PM.

  15. #450
    xxs
    xxs is offline
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erct657 View Post
    Kyzan, different story. MM will certainly be ran on that fight. Obviously, it won't be 8 rogues in the group, even though it could be.
    You have 5 stacks to purge in 6 sec - chloro can purge, archon can (instant for the harb flavor and provides cleanse as well), warlock purges (and it's great too on Kyzan), VK and Justicar can, inquistor can. VK has purge on steroids once per minute too.

    NB/Sin has 20M range, 30 if you really wish to extend yourself and better dmg than MM (from range) provides lethal too. NB has 20m, great burst w/ living flame for the beacon. Then you have bard, enough rogues.

    You can plug missing holes by having your rogues playing sub-par spec, of course. Ranged spec of clerics and mages have access to purge and better damage, so MM niche is just not there.

Closed Thread
Page 30 of 51 FirstFirst ... 20 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 40 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts